Tiketz,Mar 28 2006, 06:27 PM Wrote:Well I got to pay for the clutch :angry:
Ford did there investigation and well the parts were sent to an engineer.
All the parts the TSB states were inspected and theres nothing wrong.
If the TSB 04-21-19 becomes a recall I will get my money back (BullS***)
I did the best I could still no give.......Hey anybody want to buy a SVT LOL
I just want my car back!!!!
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Not likely to become a recall ... a little out of sequence but I've pasted the text of the TSB below.
Based on this TSB is hard to understand why you need to pay for a new clutch because the TSB includes replacing the flywheel, clutch disc and pressure plate with revised components apparently without regard to condition of the original parts - I've highlighted that part in
yellow.
There is a note at the bottom concerning warranty status -- you never told us if your vehicle was out of warranty or not, so perhaps thats the real issue.
In any event, something still smells fishy to me. You will undoubtedly have to pay to get your car back, but I wouldn't leave it at that if I was you.
Ford TSB 04- Wrote:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TSB 04-21-19 TRANSAXLE NOISE AT IDLE IN NEUTRAL WITH CLUTCH PEDAL RELEASED - PREMATURE CLUTCH WEAR
Publication Date: October 20, 2004
FORD: 2002-2004 Focus
This article supersedes TSB 04-12-02 to update the service procedure.
ISSUE:
Some 2002-2004 SVT Focus vehicles may exhibit premature clutch wear, or a clunking and rattling noise in the transaxle, mainly at idle in neutral. The noise can typically be reduced by fully depressing the clutch pedal. The premature clutch wear or noise may be caused by the dual mass flywheel, clutch disc, pressure plate or by transaxle alignment.
ACTION:
Refer to the following Service Procedure.
SERVICE PROCEDURE
Check transaxle fluid level. If low, fill to correct level and retest for noise and proper clutch operation. If noise is still present or clutch is not operating properly proceed to Step 2.
Remove the transaxle. Refer to Workshop Manual Section 308-03C: Manual Transaxle/Transmission - MT285; Removal.
Inspect the clutch slave cylinder assembly as follows:
Inspect for leaks.
Rotate the outer race, while applying pressure and check for roughness.
Inspect for any surface scoring or burrs that may impede the sliding motion of the clutch release hub and bearing. Scoring or burrs should be polished off with a fine grade of emery paper.
Replace the clutch slave cylinder if necessary. Refer to Workshop Manual Section 308-02B: Clutch Controls - MT285/MTX75 Transaxle - Clutch Slave Cylinder.
Inspect the transaxle input shaft for damage, spline wear, burrs or rough surfaces. Scoring or burrs should be polished off with a fine grade of emery paper. Replace the transaxle if the input shaft is damaged and cannot be repaired.
NOTE: IT IS NORMAL FOR THE INPUT SHAFT TO APPEAR POLISHED WHERE THE CLUTCH HUB SEATS, NO ACTION IS REQUIRED UNLESS THE SPLINES ARE DAMAGED OR WORN.
Remove the clutch disc, pressure plate and flywheel. Refer to Workshop Manual Section 308-01C; Clutch - MT285 Transaxle - Removal and Installation - Clutch Disc and Pressure Plate.
Inspect the rear face of the engine block as follows:
Ensure that the two (2) required engine dowel pins are installed and are not damaged. If the dowel pins are missing or damaged replace as required.
Inspect the corresponding dowel pin holes on the transaxle. It is acceptable for the dowel pin holes to bear slight witness marks from a tight fitting dowel. However, if the holes are elongated then they must be measured. If elongation is greater than 0.040" (1.02 mm) out-of-round replace the transaxle.
Inspect the upper and lower separator plates for damage or warping. Replace if needed.
Inspect the crankshaft flange and flywheel mating surface for residual thread locking compound or rust. Clean as necessary.
Install the following new revised components:
NOTE: THE REVISED FLYWHEEL, CLUTCH DISC AND PRESSURE PLATE ARE NOT COMPATIBLE WITH PRODUCTION LEVEL CLUTCH COMPONENTS. DO NOT INTERCHANGE OR MIX. Revised dual mass flywheel and new flywheel retaining bolts. Torque bolts in sequence to 83 lb-ft (112 N-m).
Revised pressure plate and clutch disc, and new clutch pressure plate retaining bolts. Ensure the clutch disc is properly installed with "TRANS SIDE" label facing the pressure plate. Tighten pressure plate bolts two (2) turns at a time in sequence and torque to 21 lb-ft (29 N-m).
Install transaxle. Torque the transaxle bolts in sequence to 35 lb-ft (48 N-m) to ensure proper transaxle to engine block alignment. Refer to the appropriate model year Workshop Manual Section 308-03C; Manual Transaxle/Transmission - MT285 - Installation.
NOTE: THE TRANSAXLE BOLTS COME IN FOUR (4) UNIQUE LENGTHS AND WILL FIT INTO ANY OF THE THROUGH HOLES OF THE TRANSAXLE TO ENGINE BLOCK. IT IS CRITICAL THAT THE PROPER LENGTH BOLT IS INSTALLED INTO ITS PROPER MATING HOLE.
PART NUMBER PART NAME
2M5Z-7002-BD Transaxle
2M5Z-7A564-AA Slave Cylinder
4M5Z-7550-AA Clutch Disk
4M5Z-7563-AA Pressure Plate
3S4Z-6477-AA Flywheel
W702426-S303 Bolt - Pressure Plate
W707339-S430 Bolt - Flywheel
W701350-S309 Dowel Pins
WARRANTY STATUS:
Eligible Under Provisions Of New Vehicle Limited Warranty Coverage
DEALER CODING
BASIC PART NO. CONDITION CODE
7563 D4
ZTWsquared,Mar 28 2006, 06:30 PM Wrote:Not likely to become a recall ... a little out of sequence but I've pasted the text of the TSB below.
Based on this TSB is hard to understand why you need to pay for a new clutch because the TSB includes replacing the flywheel, clutch disc and pressure plate with revised components apparently without regard to condition of the original parts - I've highlighted that part in yellow.[right][snapback]177670[/snapback][/right]
(Note, I'm
not taking Ford's side, just offering information.)
As you probably know, a TSB is issued when it is found that an issue commonly occurs. A part out of spec, etc. can be the reason. It doesn't mean that EVERY time an issue arises it's because of the exact same cause. Hence the engineer's report.
Don't put too much weight in the fact that the replacement parts listed were revised. The TSB issue's root cause may have been a flywheel problem, and the original clutch assembly is not compatable. Ford parts are constantly revised, and as (IIRC) Ford uses the Getrag in Europe, they may have made improvements.
I've tried to help Ticketz via PM, unfortunately, there are other variables that can cause the issue, such as abuse, etc.; I'm not saying that's the cause, but that's what they look for.
And the answer hasn't been answered, is it still under warranty?
I have 49000km on the car so the clutch is totally over the warranty but I also got the extended warranty.
Tiketz,Mar 29 2006, 04:29 PM Wrote:I have 49000km on the car so the clutch is totally over the warranty but I also got the extended warranty.
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So why isn't it covered under the extended warranty? It is a powertrain warranty, no?
Tiketz,Mar 29 2006, 04:29 PM Wrote:I have 49000km on the car so the clutch is totally over the warranty but I also got the extended warranty.
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It says directly in the TSB:
Quote:WARRANTY STATUS: Eligible Under Provisions Of
New Vehicle Limited
Warranty Coverage
I can send you a copy if you want.
meford4u,Mar 29 2006, 04:31 PM Wrote:Tiketz,Mar 29 2006, 04:29 PM Wrote:I have 49000km on the car so the clutch is totally over the warranty but I also got the extended warranty.
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So why isn't it covered under the extended warranty? It is a powertrain warranty, no?
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Clutch is generally considered a wearable item, just like tires and brake pads.
OAC_Sparky,Mar 29 2006, 05:35 PM Wrote:meford4u,Mar 29 2006, 04:31 PM Wrote:Tiketz,Mar 29 2006, 04:29 PM Wrote:I have 49000km on the car so the clutch is totally over the warranty but I also got the extended warranty.
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So why isn't it covered under the extended warranty? It is a powertrain warranty, no?
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Clutch is generally considered a wearable item, just like tires and brake pads.
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Yeah ... but the TSB is to address premature wear, and to my mind 49k qualifies as premature - unless they can prove abuse.
ZTWsquared,Mar 29 2006, 04:39 PM Wrote:Yeah ... but the TSB is to address premature wear, and to my mind 49k qualifies as premature - unless they can prove abuse.
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Again, I am not taking Ford's side. BUT:
The premature wear is for a specific reason in the TSB. ie poor clamping tension between parts.
If it is found that this was the cause, then yes, it would qualify.
I can GUARANTEE that I can wear out a clutch inside 5000 km and a few weeks without totally frying it (obvious abuse), you just have to ride the heck out of the clutch.
OAC_Sparky,Mar 29 2006, 04:49 PM Wrote:ZTWsquared,Mar 29 2006, 04:39 PM Wrote:Yeah ... but the TSB is to address premature wear, and to my mind 49k qualifies as premature - unless they can prove abuse.
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Again, I am not taking Ford's side. BUT:
The premature wear is for a specific reason in the TSB. ie poor clamping tension between parts.
If it is found that this was the cause, then yes, it would qualify.
I can GUARANTEE that I can wear out a clutch inside 5000 km and a few weeks without totally frying it (obvious abuse), you just have to ride the heck out of the clutch.
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True!!
But I don't ride the clutch or race at every stop light.
Im 100% sure its the TSB I had clutch rattle, clutch slipping and premature wear I still got turned down.
Im going to Ford now will let you guy's know what happened.
OAC_Sparky,Mar 29 2006, 05:49 PM Wrote:The premature wear is for a specific reason in the TSB. ie poor clamping tension between parts.
If it is found that this was the cause, then yes, it would qualify.
I can GUARANTEE that I can wear out a clutch inside 5000 km and a few weeks without totally frying it (obvious abuse), you just have to ride the heck out of the clutch.
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Point taken (and good that you're giving the other POV) ... and as I mentioned before we must also acknowledge that a TSB is something that Ford undertakes on their own -- it is not a recall -- and it is applied at their discretion.
It's been my personal experience, however, and also told to me in a "don't quote me" kind of a moment; that in terms of AWA matters Ford of Canada is really skewing the decision making criteria away from customer satisfaction and more towards the bottom line -- a sign IMO of the harsh fiscal reality in the Ford world today.
I think the fact that they revised all those parts suggest they were underspec'd to begin with. So, if customer satisfaction were the aim here on Ford's part (as I think it should be) the default should be to do this TSB in all cases where abuse wasn't proven.
If I were Tiketz, and really believed that I didn't cause this problem myself, I would take it to CAMVAP or even to small claims court. My lawyerly instincts tell me he would win by virtue of Ford's tacit admission contained within the TSB itself.
Just my .02.
I wholeheartedly agree that if Ticketz feels that he is aggrieved that he take every legal recourse available to him to recoup his money.
As I said, I am not against him -- I am only trying to provide information.
It's just that a great many people believe that just because a TSB exists that they automatically have the exact problem.
Well got my car back YEAH!!! :D
They changed every thing that the TSB says, before the parts got inspected. Ford engineer inspected the parts and said its not the TSB its wear and tear on the clutch.
I only had to pay for the new clutch and labour I didn't want to keep fighting about this bulls*** so in the end still got the TSB done.
The new parts WOW! I almost stalled in the lot what a difference almost seems like there is a stage 3 clutch.
:wtf: My car was so dirty :puke: my interior is greesy, and my roof liner is black from all the dust and finger prints. Not too happy about that.
Well looks like Ford is paying for my detailing! :P
Im just Happy to have my car back :fluffy:
From now on Im only going to the #1 dealer Sheridan Ford (Lakeshore/Dixie) ;)
Best way to get stuff resolved is at the dealer, if theres something wrong I refuse to take the keys until they resolve the issue...
That includes the bill and dirt in the car.
That little paper that you sign when you pay, always ask to check the work before you sign it.....
Hey Tony, Glad to hear that you finally got your ride back. All there is to do now is detail it and get those big ass wheels on. When you have all that done I will come over and snap a few pic's if you still want me too.
What is your next step? Are you going after them for cleaning expenses?
E.O Masiv install this weekend YEAH!!
Hope the weather is nice
:fluffy: