No, not with your mods. Waste of money and they'll eat up your pads a lot quicker than normal ones...
Aren't Brembo blanks just a better version of the stock rotor? I'd say go with those and some Hawk HPS pads.
thats way more than i pay for those. i can get those for 39.95 each.(new)
u should definetly shop around a little bit more.
i just took of my pair for the winter. the work really good, but they do wear down the pads quickly.
go cross drilled only if you prefer pretty over useful
The problem with cross-drilled is that they wear out the pads quicker, only show an improvement when very hot, and there are barely any shops that can machine the rotors because of the holes. They have to use sanding disks instead of two metal prongs.
Enough with the disinformation guys⦠How can a cross drilled rotor wear out the pad quicker than a slotted or blank one?
Drilled or slotted rotors do work by helping remove the gas created when the pad comes in contact with the rotor. Does this matter to you for day to day use???
Probably not, just get a set of Brembo blanks for the OEM Ford part, they work as well as most everyone will ever need. If you want them for the looks fair enough but I would stay away from them because they will probably rust like a SOB.
Straight from the Baer website..
Quote:What are the benefits to cross-drilling, slotting, and zinc-washing my rotors?
In years past, cross-drilling and/or slotting the rotor for racing purposes was beneficial by providing a way to expel the gasses created when the bonding agents employed to manufacture the pads began to break down at extreme temperatures. This condition is often referred to as "green pad fade" or "outgassing". When it does occur, the driver still has a good firm brake pedal, but simply little or no friction. Since this normally happens only at temperatures witnessed in racing, this can be very exciting!
However, with today´s race pad technology, ´outgassing´ is no longer much of a concern. When shopping for races pads, or even ultra-high performance road pads, look for the phrases, "dynamic surface treatment", "race ready", and/or, "pre-burnished". When these or similar statements are made by the pad manufacturer, the pad in question will likely have little or no problem with ´outgassing´. Ironically more pedestrian pads used on most streetcars will still exhibit ´outgassing´, but only when used at temperatures normally only encountered on the racetrack.
Although crossdrilling and/or slotting will provide a welcome path to expend any gasses when and if they develop, it is primarily a visual enhancement behind todayâs often wide-open wheel designs.
Crossdrilling offers the greatest gas relief pathway, but creates potential "stress risers" from which cracks can occur. Baer´s rotors are cast with crossdrilling in mind, from the material specified, to curved vanes, behind which the holes are placed to minimize potential crack migration. Slotted surfaces are what Baer recommends for track only use. Slotted only rotors are offered as an option for any of Baerâs offerings.
darkpuppet,Nov 15 2005, 11:48 AM Wrote:Straight from the Baer website..
Quote:What are the benefits to cross-drilling, slotting, and zinc-washing my rotors?
In years past, cross-drilling and/or slotting the rotor for racing purposes was beneficial by providing a way to expel the gasses created when the bonding agents employed to manufacture the pads began to break down at extreme temperatures. This condition is often referred to as "green pad fade" or "outgassing". When it does occur, the driver still has a good firm brake pedal, but simply little or no friction. Since this normally happens only at temperatures witnessed in racing, this can be very exciting!
However, with today´s race pad technology, ´outgassing´ is no longer much of a concern. When shopping for races pads, or even ultra-high performance road pads, look for the phrases, "dynamic surface treatment", "race ready", and/or, "pre-burnished". When these or similar statements are made by the pad manufacturer, the pad in question will likely have little or no problem with ´outgassing´. Ironically more pedestrian pads used on most streetcars will still exhibit ´outgassing´, but only when used at temperatures normally only encountered on the racetrack.
Although crossdrilling and/or slotting will provide a welcome path to expend any gasses when and if they develop, it is primarily a visual enhancement behind todayâs often wide-open wheel designs.
Crossdrilling offers the greatest gas relief pathway, but creates potential "stress risers" from which cracks can occur. Baer´s rotors are cast with crossdrilling in mind, from the material specified, to curved vanes, behind which the holes are placed to minimize potential crack migration. Slotted surfaces are what Baer recommends for track only use. Slotted only rotors are offered as an option for any of Baerâs offerings.
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Steve that contradicts what you posted.
1) They are talking about "race pad technology" not simple street use. I find it hard to believe that anyone here other than one or two people would happily put up with a high dust level a mid or race pad for increased brake performance it brings.
2) "Crossdrilling offers the greatest gas relief pathway" Well duh it provides a larger area for the gas to escape VS slotted.
3)"it is primarily a visual enhancement behind todayâs often wide-open wheel designs."
It doesn't say anything about either design leading to higher pad wear or to a decrease in either initial use or long-term durability.
Simon, ever use a cheese grater?
That's why/how they wear pads faster. Same with slotting.
Cross drilling is 1950's technology, and has not place on anything using modern pad materials. Modern pads, whether street or race just do not off-gas the way old pads did. There is no gas that needs to escape.
So, there is no real benefit to cross drilling. Yet it costs more money and wears your pads faster. They also critically reduce the structural integrity of the rotor. They crack, and will eventually break apart.
Slotting does have some use, but not because of off-gassing. It's primary benefit is to "clean" the pads, particularly in rally. If mud or water gets on the rotor, the slots help clear it. It doesn't help braking otherwise.
Both of them can actually hinder dry braking performance, because they remove surface area and mass from the rotor.
There is a movement to BAN drilled rotors from racetracks, because of their inherent risk of structural failure.
Euro Ford Fan,Nov 15 2005, 01:07 PM Wrote:Steve that contradicts what you posted.
1) They are talking about "race pad technology" not simple street use. I find it hard to believe that anyone here other than one or two people would happily put up with a high dust level a mid or race pad for increased brake performance it brings.
2) "Crossdrilling offers the greatest gas relief pathway" Well duh it provides a larger area for the gas to escape VS slotted.
3)"it is primarily a visual enhancement behind todayâs often wide-open wheel designs."
It doesn't say anything about either design leading to higher pad wear or to a decrease in either initial use or long-term durability.
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The gist of it is that if you're looking for performance, there are better solutions, and even the brake companies suggest other than cross drilled for serious track use. Why risk stress risers and a cracked rotor when the technology is mostly redundant.
So I stand by my statement, for overall functionality, cross-drilled < proper performance setup.
I know a lot of people seem to worry more about lifespan and brake dust, but if that's all you're worried about, I guess performance isn't your primary concern.
P-51,Nov 15 2005, 12: Wrote:Simon, ever use a cheese grater?
That's why/how they wear pads faster. Same with slotting.
Cross drilling is 1950's technology, and has not place on anything using modern pad materials. Modern pads, whether street or race just do not off-gas the way old pads did. There is no gas that needs to escape.
So, there is no real benefit to cross drilling. Yet it costs more money and wears your pads faster. They also critically reduce the structural integrity of the rotor. They crack, and will eventually break apart.
Slotting does have some use, but not because of off-gassing. It's primary benefit is to "clean" the pads, particularly in rally. If mud or water gets on the rotor, the slots help clear it. It doesn't help braking otherwise.
Both of them can actually hinder dry braking performance, because they remove surface area and mass from the rotor.
There is a movement to BAN drilled rotors from racetracks, because of their inherent risk of structural failure.
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Rob structural failure I would agree with yes, I've had a rotor fail when I first took my XR to the Glen back in 1999. I never ran a cross drilled rotor again after that.
I'm still not all that convinced that they wear out that much sooner. In a street application how much would you consider a good pad life to be? I change rotors and pads when I change from my summer to winter tires? 2 full seasons like tires maybe 20,000 KM is plenty of life.
Steve: I'll agree with that.
So the best performance / cost-effective upgrade to a Focus' stock brake system is....
Larger discs? Discs all the way around for us drum-heads? (expensive, apparently)
Better quality Brembo blanks or perhaps something slotted by a name brand manufacturer?
In other words, Brembo blanks and Hawk HPS pads or EBC Green Stuff pads is a smart move?
For stock regular old street duty, premium rotors from napa or crappy would do. You don't need anything fancy for the street.
my history
0-70000km stock pad/rotor
70000-170000km drill rotor/mintex pad
170000-persent drill rotor/PBR pad
I think I paid approx $170cdn for rotor/pad, tax in.
I got the cross drill because I can get it cheaper than stock rotor and from what I see it last me longer than stock setup. Plus personally I think drill rotor give me a better feel.
Quote:I'm still not all that convinced that they wear out that much sooner. In a street application how much would you consider a good pad life to be? I change rotors and pads when I change from my summer to winter tires? 2 full seasons like tires maybe 20,000 KM is plenty of life.
I can't comment on the wear, because I've never run them. ;) That's just what I hear, and it makes sense.
How long can you expect out of brakes? That's a pretty vague question.
My Dad has a Toyota 4Runner with 360,000km on it, just had it's first brake job.
I have 55,000 on the WRX, and they're still good.
Some people are happy to get 30,000 out of a set of GM brakes.
Quote:So the best performance / cost-effective upgrade to a Focus' stock brake system is....
Larger discs? Discs all the way around for us drum-heads? (expensive, apparently)
Better quality Brembo blanks or perhaps something slotted by a name brand manufacturer?
In other words, Brembo blanks and Hawk HPS pads or EBC Green Stuff pads is a smart move?
You really can't upgrade from stock without doing something radical. The rotors are all the same within a stock fittment. No opportunities there.
The stock pads are pretty damn good, if you don't mind all the dust. Great bite, modulation, and fade resistance.
I tried Mintex A/F to get rid of the dust, and they really sucked. Couldn't take the heat of a trackday.
There are pads that will outperform the stockers on a trackday, but you don't want them on the street as they make nasty dust, squeal, and eat rotors when cold.
Frankly, I don't understand the desire to improve the performance of the stock brakes on the street. Other than to get points for saying you did.
The stock brakes can lock up R compounds at 120+km/h. You can't improve on that. Lockup is lockup. I've never had serious fade with stock-ish power when beating on them on a racetrack, so no thermal issues. Got a feel problem? Bleed them for $20.
What other performance measurable are you wanting to improve?
*threadjacking in progress*
I want to add a bit more rear bias to the brake balance... it seems it's stupidly disproportionate. I can get something to that effect from EscortFocus.com, and it should work as I don't have ABS.
Other than that... larger rotors for better braking, and maybe stainless lines for less "squish". I really want it to haul down in a hurry, and the suspension should handle the greater braking force generated by the upgrades, no?
Am I on the right "track"? ;)
*back to the regular FC.net craziness*
Just use Brembo blanks with either KVR or Hawk pads...especially if it's only a street setup you have...anything else is just for show..unless you actually take your car to the track.
W O W !!
Thanks guys for all the info !! So those Brembo blanks are just the straight rotors that look like factory ? Someone mentioned them at appx $39.00 a piece?
I was looking because I have the 3 rd pair of rotors on and I am not hard on the brakes... the factory ones just seemed to warp...and I am sure I'll be needing some more in the future.
Again thanks for all the info
Chances are they aren't actually warping, but it is in fact "uneven pad deposition". It tends to happen over time when you don't get the brake really hot occaisionally.
I never had a warped set of rotors in 5 Foci I've owned.