FocusCanada Forums

^^^only you would find this to be 14 again

i just passed by the wreckage on the 401... the smoke is still so thick i was in the far left lane on the westbound express and my eyes were burning

My edumacated guess....................

despite tonight's news reports that seem to now rule out lightning and the shift of cause to hydroplanning I say the airplaine had a static charge built up in flight, busted a rubber tire (which would normally insulate a plane) during a difficult landing and then there was metal to earth contact at the landing gear.

I'll even go so far and say it was rear landing gear and water and foam could control the initial fire but not put out the deep seated fire (which seemed to burn an unusually long time?) because it was "Class D" (metallic). Airplane wheels are often magnesium.

If you've seen magnesium burn you'll understand, it's the main ingredient in flares.

I had a friend that died for the same reason reversed. She was a stewardess and the front wheel bearing heated so much on take off that the magnesium burned unknown to the pilot who retracted the landing gear and the whole plane went down. That time everyone died.

Ick. From what my Mom told me, everyone made it off alive. Good show because that's 293 passengers and 12 crew.

I dunno what people are thinking saying that the reaction time for airport emergency officials was slow. According to the passengers, it was less than a minute from the time the aircraft came to a stop till when the crews were on scene spraying the plane down with foam and water. I highly doubt that if indeed the response time was as slow as people say, there would have been no fatalities. If you look at the pictures when the people are up at the 401, emergency crews are already there. I think people were just flagging down motorists in order to get as far away from the crash as possible incase the remaining fuel (which couldn't have been that much) exploded.

2001 ZTS,Aug 2 2005, 06:44 PM Wrote:A day in the life of a 14 year old girl. Don't ask me how I come across this stuff:

http://www.livejournal.com/users/ptc555/867934.html
[right][snapback]127317[/snapback][/right]

wow, she's got alot to say, i gave up after she took a pic of what's his face, and his stinky B.O.

Raine,Aug 2 2005, 09:16 PM Wrote:I dunno what people are thinking saying that the reaction time for airport emergency officials was slow. According to the passengers, it was less than a minute from the time the aircraft came to a stop till when the crews were on scene spraying the plane down with foam and water. I highly doubt that if indeed the response time was as slow as people say, there would have been no fatalities. If you look at the pictures when the people are up at the 401, emergency crews are already there. I think people were just flagging down motorists in order to get as far away from the crash as possible incase the remaining fuel (which couldn't have been that much) exploded.
[right][snapback]127372[/snapback][/right]

That size aircraft still has approx. 20,000 pounds of fuel on landing....sounds like alot but compared to the over all weight of this aircraft it's nothing...

20,000 pounds of jet fuel (Gallon of Jet Fuel weighs 7.9 lbs or 3.6 kgs), so really it's only 2500 gallons of fuel....enough to start a fire thats for sure.

Hmm... commute in today. traffic still sucked. damn rubberneckers. from the eastbound side of the 401 you can see some of the wreckage. pretty interesting stuff.

That's just Al's ego. Move along, nothing important to see here.

NOS2Go4Me,Aug 3 2005, 08:42 AM Wrote:That's just Al's ego. Move along, nothing important to see here.
[right][snapback]127426[/snapback][/right]

Huh :blink:

It's absolutely staggering thet no one got hurt.

I rather crash on landing than crash on takeoff. I'm glad everyone made it out alright.

Good to see no one died. Lucky my cousin came in last week on an Air France flight. :ph34r:

I heard officials from Dallas-Fort Worth airport came up overnight because they were so impressed and want to observe and learn.

The responders were on scene at the furthest corner of the airport in 52 seconds and 3/4's of the passengers were already out. The whole plane was evacuated of 300 people in less two minutes flat. It probably takes me that long to get my kid out of the Focus.

Quite amazing.

2001 ZTS,Aug 3 2005, 07:55 PM Wrote:I heard officials from Dallas-Fort Worth airport came up overnight because they were so impressed and want to observe and learn.

The responders were on scene at the furthest corner of the airport in 52 seconds and 3/4's of the passengers were already out. The whole plane was evacuated of 300 people in less two minutes flat. It probably takes me that long to get my kid out of the Focus.

Quite amazing.
[right][snapback]127687[/snapback][/right]

Geez, it takes me two minutes to get out of my Focus :D

See, this is why you watch the emergency film that they show you before the plane takes off, so you know what to do when things bugger up.

NefCanuck

There is a guy on the Subaru board that works at the airport and says he saw the lightning hit the plane before the landing (page 2):


http://www.toronto-subaru-club.com/cgi-bin...ST;f=17;t=26413

See this is what i don't understand,

this is an AIRBUS 340 right...huge aircraft. Now aircraft always have redundant systems built in IE. secondary hydraulic systems, and so on. If this aircraft was under COMPLETE power loss, braking systems always have an emergency system of some sort, just for such scenerios, which should of stopped this aircraft way before the gulley.

I work on CF-18's myself, and they have an accumulator type system for emergencies. if there is a complete hydraulic loss, the emergency accumluator uses nitrogen to force hydraulic fluid to the braking system to stop the jet. They also have a tail hook mind you to engage the cable if they need to. I'm just curious on why such a huge jet as this 340, still couldn't stop in time when it should of had plenty of stopping power in the emergency system..

(okay okay i'm an aviation nerd)

Slimsride,Aug 3 2005, 10:38 PM Wrote:See this is what i don't understand,

this is an AIRBUS 340 right...huge aircraft.  Now aircraft always have redundant systems  built in IE.  secondary hydraulic systems, and so on.  If this aircraft was under COMPLETE power loss, braking systems always have an emergency system of some sort, just for such scenerios, which should of stopped this aircraft way before the gulley.

(okay okay i'm an aviation nerd)
[right][snapback]127749[/snapback][/right]

I think there was another theory that the tires were hydroplaning (Which would possibly account for the engaging of the reverse engines that witnesses say they heard as the plane was trying to stop on the runway)

Isn't the Airbus A340 a "fly by wire" aircraft? If it is then if all the power went out, for even a moment everything would be "fux0r3d" and even if it came back on line right away wouldn't it be subject to a rebooting procedure?

Now I'm admitting here and now that I have no idea whether or not I'm right on the type of control system the A340 uses, so I may be talking out of my @$$ here, but that's one explanation I suppose

NefCanuck

NefCanuck,Aug 3 2005, 09:12 PM Wrote:

Slimsride,Aug 3 2005, 10:38 PM Wrote:See this is what i don't understand,

this is an AIRBUS 340 right...huge aircraft.  Now aircraft always have redundant systems  built in IE.  secondary hydraulic systems, and so on.  If this aircraft was under COMPLETE power loss, braking systems always have an emergency system of some sort, just for such scenerios, which should of stopped this aircraft way before the gulley.

(okay okay i'm an aviation nerd)
[right][snapback]127749[/snapback][/right]

I think there was another theory that the tires were hydroplaning (Which would possibly account for the engaging of the reverse engines that witnesses say they heard as the plane was trying to stop on the runway)

Isn't the Airbus A340 a "fly by wire" aircraft? If it is then if all the power went out, for even a moment everything would be "fux0r3d" and even if it came back on line right away wouldn't it be subject to a rebooting procedure?

Now I'm admitting here and now that I have no idea whether or not I'm right on the type of control system the A340 uses, so I may be talking out of my @$$ here, but that's one explanation I suppose

NefCanuck
[right][snapback]127756[/snapback][/right]

Fly by wire is correct, however it still should have a back up system however, as for the reboot procedure..hmmm, not sure...mind you if it's hydroplaning..well even with back up brakes, your SOL, so that could explain the oops...but thankfully everyone is safe, which is totally awesome.

Slimsride,Aug 3 2005, 11:41 PM Wrote:

NefCanuck,Aug 3 2005, 09:12 PM Wrote:I think there was another theory that the tires were hydroplaning (Which would possibly account for the engaging of the reverse engines that witnesses say they heard as the plane was trying to stop on the runway)

Isn't the Airbus A340 a "fly by wire" aircraft?  If it is then if all the power went out, for even a moment everything would be "fux0r3d" and even if it came back on line right away wouldn't it be subject to a rebooting procedure? 

Now I'm admitting here and now that I have no idea whether or not I'm right on the type of control system the A340 uses, so I may be talking out of my @$$ here, but that's one explanation I suppose

NefCanuck
[right][snapback]127756[/snapback][/right]

Fly by wire is correct, however it still should have a back up system however, as for the reboot procedure..hmmm, not sure...mind you if it's hydroplaning..well even with back up brakes, your SOL, so that could explain the oops...but thankfully everyone is safe, which is totally awesome.
[right][snapback]127760[/snapback][/right]

Y'know this almost makes me want to google info on the A340 to find out what kind of built in redundancies it has (notice I said almost, I may be curious but I'm not about to lose myself in reams of technical data I have no hope of understanding either... I do that enough at work :lol:)

I've actually managed to hydroplane a car once, it was freaky, all engine and no traction :ph34r: Yeah the fact that everyone is safe means that this could make for a TV movie down the road

"Miracle at Pearson" anyone?

NefCanuck