maybe it's not a softer ride that I am looking for, I just want the car not to bottom out, I mean I don't scrape the ground or the under carriage of the car but I feel the shock running out of travel and BANG it's like a bomb went off. Maybe I need a stiffer shock that wont compress as easy as the svt shocks do so that it doesn't bottom out. If I got the eibach Pro Dampers would they be better than the svt shocks?
SVT ZX3,Apr 23 2005, 12:37 AM Wrote:Quote:Not necessarily shot but on average the stock dampers will wear out within 6 months of driving if your using them with a lowering spring. I guess I shouldn't have said "shot" as in like garbage, they still work but they deteriorate the ride quality considerably compared to a damper designed to work with your lowering spring.
Reminds me of an article I read about a chick who ownes a Protoge5 here and I quote from her "I would not recommend coilovers to any one as my stock shocks were destroyed in 2 months". I'm sure she had the thing slammed to the ground. The best part was that the article was mainly about how she didn't get any respect from guys being a chick with a modified car. :rolleyes: :lol:
Quote:That's why I haven't lowered my car. Svt got it perfect for my taste, enough firmness/sportiness without causing your fillings to come loose. Yes it would look better if it sat a little closer to the ground but is it worth destroying what the svt engineers thought was the best compromise of comfort/performance. Now if I would use this car as a track car instead of my daily driver that'd be a different story .
I'm with ya 100%. I really would like mine lower, but this thread is exactly why I haven't done it.
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If anything, changing the shocks will make the car ride even stiffer.
I just had a new setup of Tein S-Tech and Mazdaspeed shocks installed in my car and it rides a lot stiffer than my old setup of lowering springs on the stock shocks.
Also, the stock shocks shouldn't wear nearly as quickly as many people believe. My car uses the same (or similar! geeez...this is basically a Euro Focus with Mazda badging) FoMoCo shocks as the Focus and after 25000km on a 2" drop they still ride like day 1.
My car lowered with sportlines, the stock shocks were toast within 10,000 kms.
nothing personal here.....but this is a classic example of someone not doing there homework......
suspension tech is incredibly sneeky hard to get right.....I have been trying for 22 years now and only begun to know how to get there...
sportlines are stiff.....never going to change that with out changing to different springs.....but hey your ride is ......Mad Tight Low now .....
hehehehe
sorry getting a laugh on your behalf right now...
it sounds to me that the springs are just not stiff enough, cause if the springs are stiffer, it probably won't bottom out as easy. wasn't there a choice to choose the spring rate? because if you intended to use the stock shocks/struts, you should have chose a really stiff spring
dad,Apr 23 2005, 02:27 PM Wrote:nothing personal here.....but this is a classic example of someone not doing there homework......
suspension tech is incredibly sneeky hard to get right.....I have been trying for 22 years now and only begun to know how to get there...
sportlines are stiff.....never going to change that with out changing to different springs.....but hey your ride is ......Mad Tight Low now .....
hehehehe
sorry getting a laugh on your behalf right now...
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Was that directed at me?
I run a full Eibach setup now. Mad tight low - and handles nicely.
SLIP STREAM SVT,Apr 23 2005, 09:59 PM Wrote:because if you intended to use the stock shocks/struts, you should have chose a really stiff spring
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ummm.. you're joking right :ph34r:
naz,Apr 24 2005, 09:50 PM Wrote:SLIP STREAM SVT,Apr 23 2005, 09:59 PM Wrote:because if you intended to use the stock shocks/struts, you should have chose a really stiff spring
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ummm.. you're joking right :ph34r:
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hehehehe......
dad,Apr 26 2005, 12:57 AM Wrote:naz,Apr 24 2005, 09:50 PM Wrote:SLIP STREAM SVT,Apr 23 2005, 09:59 PM Wrote:because if you intended to use the stock shocks/struts, you should have chose a really stiff spring
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ummm.. you're joking right :ph34r:
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hehehehe......
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i'm still waiting for the yea i was just making fun of r1ceRs who think like that post.... :ph34r:
EDIT: i mean.. i do drive a MaDD TitE JdM integra that is almost MaDD titE LoW so what do i know.. but i was under the impression stiffer springs absorb more of the weight being transferred onto them.. meaning the damper that is acting on that stiffer spring would have more forces acting on it as it goes about its business 'damping' .. so really.. if i used MeGa SiC stiff spring with the stock dampers i'd wear the dampers out very quickly..
so... because of that reasoning for example.. since i have OEM honda dampers i went with 276lb/in front 210lb/in rear springs with a mild .75" lowering... because they were similar to the stock springs (217lb/in front, 110lb/in rear appx)
ooh and those springs had free type R stickers and red honda emblems in the box.. so really.. it was a no brainer
i think the commentary here is basically if your gonna experiment....well go ahead. I on the other hand prefer to do a ridiculas amount of homework before I change anything on any car....leads to less mistakes..
Anyway Naz your tech is as I have discovered as well....but the fly in that mix is that not all stock dampers are created equal...so back to the homework and find out somehow if the damping rates of your stockers match your new springs.....or do as most do...run with it and blow them up......as most do..
I have allways been an advocate of a matched system for those who have not got the time , energy , or ability to determine how to mix and match this stuff....I have said before that I only know a handfull of guys personally that can sit in a car , track it, and tell you what the "likely" changes required are.....and this is sometimes counterintuative to what the tech might suggest.....tis a very difficult subject indeed.
I just get a kick out of just about every guy who lowers his car and a short time later gets on the internet and asks why his car bounces around.....
the moral of the story is that most stock dampers are less than good in the first place...save yourelf the headace and save untill you can install a matched system...in the end you will likely be happier , or least problem free.
honestly, i have no clue if the stock dampers are 'optimal' for these springs i am using.. they are H&R OE Sport, so they are being marketed as a slightly more aggressive OE replacement spring.. the spring rates are similar to stock and the drop is not much so i figure its not just marketing hype/BS.. and after 30k+ miles seems like its so far so good... no sign of the car being underdamped yet
if they make these springs for the focus.. i think they are a good product to consider for ppl who don't wanna upgrade the dampers as well..
it is probably that the stock dampers that come from Honda are simply better quality...When we first started playing with different springs in one of my Z cars there was no "aftermarket" dampers available....and we never had any problems as such because Nissan was using a damper from a company that is now known as Tanabie....simply a good quality basic no-frills damper...we would explore drops as low as 2.5 inches as well.....
This thread is getting really useless...how many more different and conflicting opinions can we have in one friggin thread....
There are only about 3 people on this board that I would even considering listening to regarding suspension, 2 of them havent posted in this thread...and I can only assume why!..Too bad the guy that I think is the most knowledgeable never really posts anymore....and we get is this wishee-washee b.s......if you don't know what your talking about...DON'T SPEAK UP!!
Too many people think they are an expert and it's retarded....for real!!!
</rant>
ok ...back to the original question about the sport lines from Eibach....these things a re stiff and are basically track ready ...as I understand it ....no shock is gonna change that...period.
All that can be hoped for is that a change of dampers will take any bounce out of the ride. Stock dampers just cant take those spring rates and when they are already "about " half way through there travel they realistically dont have much of a chance to "damp" anything .
Quite often guys that go "sportline" low end up basically riding on the bump stops or with only a couple of inches of free travel...which I assume is why the guy is getting his filings knocked out of his mouth every time he goes over a bump...
There is an incredible amount of tech on this, and most ,if not all is all but overcomplicated s**t....the best suspensions seem to allways come from a retarded amount of experimentation....not something most guys want to do.
My basic comments still remain ....do your homework first and this will never happen. All to often guys want there machine to run low and dont realize that there is allways a tradeoff somewere in this equation....The most interesting thing is that in order for the car to actually corner properly you actually need a fair amount of suspension travel ....probably more than the sportlines have to offer...unless the car is so stiffly damped from aftermarket shocks that it wont ride on the bump stops....not a comfortable car to run on the streets .
And those points could also be argued as well. Because if the car is super stiffly sprung with tight dampers it could become "go-cart like" which is not really the balance you need especially in a front drive car...
talk to ten people with some experince and you will get ten views from slightly different lenses ....there will be some common ground but that is about it...
buy a matched system like the eibach pro kit ...with the bars....this is a good all round steert setup....FK also has one....it is excellent value for the money.
thats it I guess.....
a stiffer spring shouldn't be the solution to bottoming out. that's just scary as it'll overwhelm any dampening of your dampers.
YOu really need to focus on getting a balanced kit. Springs can offer a lowered stance, and harder rate to combat roll, but the dampers have to be able to control the spring. You want to keep the car from crashing down, and keep it from bobbing back up.
a well balanced suspension should feel like it's using the travel wisely... the car will have harsher ride, because, let's face it.. YOU HAVE LESS TRAVEL - travel = plush.
believe it or not, I learned most of my suspension tech from R/C cars and mountainbiking... but the principles are the same.... enough spring to control the car, enough damper to control the spring, while maintaining responsiveness.
I'm quite happy with my SHM kit... people have their favourites out there, but I think my car's ride is a great compromise in terms of performance and streetability.
a 15 hour drive over permafrost-lifted roads.. with only minor neck fatigue..I wouldn't chance the same drive in meford's car!
I would love to get r comps on a bunch of different setups and see who pulls the best on the skid pad...
I honestly think a 2" drop on the focus is a bit much... but get harder dampers (or better yet, adjustable dampers) and dial in your ride... it'll always be hard, but you can stop it from crashing into the bumpstops (progressive rate dampers may be handy in this case).
microbunny,Apr 27 2005, 11:37 PM Wrote:This thread is getting really useless...how many more different and conflicting opinions can we have in one friggin thread....
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dude.. whenever talk turns to suspension there are always gonna be a TON of conflicting opinions..
about the only thing that i would say absolutely do not listen to is the suggestion of picking very stiff springs to run with the stock dampers
01-yellow-ZX3,Apr 23 2005 Wrote:My car lowered with sportlines, the stock shocks were toast within 10,000 kms.
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Your lucky!! My shock are almost toast and it's been about 2000kms. But my roads are pretty bad. And now I alot more careful. :)
There is a LOT of good info here, you just need to read between the lines ;)
Thanks guys (and I didn't even start the thread!).
2003svt,Apr 21 2005, 12:21 PM Wrote:Just wondering what the solution is to get a better ride now that I have the Eibach Sportline kit installed in my SVT? I thought that the stock SVT shocks would be more than adequate considering it comes lowered from factory. Is their a better shock that will give me a softer ride or am I outta luck cuz the car is too low? I love the overall stance off the car 2" drop in front and 1.8" in back, but the bumps are bone crushing and i feel like the whole car is coming apart not to mention that I can feel the shock completly out of travel and bottom out. Is the solution a stiffer shock? shorter shock if their are any such things? need help cuz the ride is BRUTAL at best. Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
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I JUST GOT MINE TODAY, IN THE INSTRUCTIONS IT SAYS YOU ARE REQUIRED TO TRIM THE BUMP STOPS. DID YOU DO THAT? THAT WOLD CAUSE LOTS OF POUNDING WHEN YOU GO OVER BUMPS