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We are doing some work in our upstairs bathroom and I have come across something I have never seen before. Our house was built in the 60's and aparently this wasn't uncommon back then.

I took the light fixture off the wall above the mirror. It was mounted directly to the wall, not the box. There were only 2 wires, one white and one black. So far I am good. Now is where I am lost. Instead of having a round box in the wall there in a rectangle box, like a single switch box on its side. Can a new fixture be mounted to this box or will I need to replace the box with a round style box so the fixture can be mounted to it?

I will see if the wife can snap a picture of it and post it up for me.

Thanks in advance.

New box in the wall. Just to be safe.

That is NOT the answer I am looking for. But sort of what I figured, unless somebody else has any input. Where is Mike?

A box in the wall is nice, but you think its not common even in 2006 when our townhouse was built ALL the wall light fixtures were like this, just wires sticking out of the walls. The reason they get away with this is the light bars they use the wire goes in witha gromet and is essentially the grounded box that will contain the wire joints. What lots of people do is just remove this box and go "gee theres no box in the wall...shrug.." and then screw their light fixture to the wall and be done with it :)

BUT...you should put in a box, the junctions where your wires attach, should there be any problem you'll have a greater chance to start a fire should they not be in a grounded box. Its a $4 investment.


Edit: sorry I no read your post so good, me dummy. But I question this, where is your ground wire? Is the box in your current wall not grounded? If it is not perhaps this is a big can of worms?

No visible bare wire that I could see or that was hooked up. I reminded the wife about the photograph, she said that she would have it to me shortly. I will post when I get it.

Here is what I am dealing with. Half the box is covered by some wood for some unknown reason.



I didn't do the Mudding. It was like that under the pre-existing light fixture.

Are your walls plaster? could that be some wood slats?

Who knows what the walls are made from. This is the house that Jack built. :angry:

The wiring in this place is so messed up I swear it was a grow opp in the past. The main floor including the kitchen, dining room, and living room are all on the same circut. We can't watch TV and run the microwave at the same time.

Focus man, Focus.,Jan 13 2010, 11:37 AM Wrote:We are doing some work in our upstairs bathroom and I have come across something I have never seen before.  Our house was built in the 60's and aparently this wasn't uncommon back then. 

I took the light fixture off the wall above the mirror.  It was mounted directly to the wall, not the box.  There were only 2 wires, one white and one black.  So far I am good.  Now is where I am lost.  Instead of having a round box in the wall there in a rectangle box, like a single switch box on its side.  Can a new fixture be mounted to this box or will I need to replace the box with a round style box so the fixture can be mounted to it?

I will see if the wife can snap a picture of it and post it up for me.

Thanks in advance.
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Built in the '60s for sure there is a third wire grounding that box (assuming this was part of the new construction and your house was built to code) ...

If it was me I would open up that area around the box and confirm what you're dealing with - right now it's only conjecture.

In any event, I've seen lots of light fixtures attached to square boxes - IIRC the attaching points are essentially in the same location despite the different shape of the box - so from that perspective - assuming the existing box is grounded and assuming you can find the attachment points under the plaster, I think you would want to use that box.

The alternative (and a pretty good one) is to replace that box with a "reno" box - one that is designed to fit into an opening in the plaster or drywall that is just the same size as the box itself - but even then you have to deal with grounding the fixture - so not sure you can do anything before confirming the existence of the third wire.

Thanks for everyones input. As for the attachment points, you can see them in the photo, they are on the outside egde of the box (left and right sides) on the wood that is covering it. Rusty, slot screws.

As for the house being built to code, who knows? AFAIK the electrical currently isn't. But you didn't hear me say that.

I remember there being something in the Electrical code that specifys if you are doing an electrical renovation, you must replace the aging box with a new one that conforms to electrical code. I am not an electrician but did study electronics for a few years and have done wiring renovations in many homes. when I am faced with these I simply removed the old box, and insalled those hectigon shaped box in its place. Very simple job.

paolo,Jan 13 2010, 04:02 PM Wrote:I remember there being something in the Electrical code that specifys if you are doing an electrical renovation, you must replace the aging box with a new one that conforms to electrical code.  I am not an electrician but did study electronics for a few years and have done wiring renovations in many homes.  when I am faced with these I simply removed the old box, and insalled those hectigon shaped box in its place.  Very simple job.
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Not really doing an electrical renovation, just replacing the fixture. And that is what led me to this little gem in the wall. I need to have the fixture up before Friday as we are having company this weekend. Riley is turning One. :beerchug:

im with ken on this one, its best to see what all you're working with first. if there isn't a wire grounding that box and for some reason theres something wrong you'll find out about it real quick lol.

hey focus, man focus: Here's a link to an article you may find interesting:

http://www.rd.com/your-home/ask-the-handym...ticle35636.html

another quick thing I noticed is that modern lamp fixtures are designed for octagon electrical boxes in terms of the width of where the screws mount, and may not always fit rectangular boxes. If I were you, I would buy the lamp, check the 2 screws and see if they line up with the existing box in your wall, if so, go ahead and use it, if not, see if they come with brackets that adapt to the width of the boxes mounting screws. if not, looks like you have to go to rona or aikenheads and pick up the octagon boxes.

From an actual electrician, your best bet is to just open the wall by cutting out around the box.

I've seen crap like this before, where an electrician/homeowner is too lazy to properly mount the box, but usually in an older house (early '50s).

In the 50s-60s it also is not uncommon to have lighting fixtures with no bond wire; they used to sell 14/2 without the bond and for the period it wasn't needed or necessarily considered a safety issue. That said, until you actually cut open the wall and expose the box better you won't know if there is a bond twisted onto the box or the wire clamp (also not an uncommon practice).

The first thing that you have to consider is the type of fixture you're going to mount there, get the appropriate box and mount it securely. For most styles of box, whether octagonal or square, there are a few different mounting options. It's not as hard as you think.

By the way, Matt(OAC Sparky) is an electrician.

And what Ken said. You can buy electrical boxes(rectangular) that are made so you can open up a wall and not have to attach the box to a stud. It's called a reno box and the box just "clamps" to the drywall. Very secure and would hold any light. I have never come across a reno box as a rectangular box, but I am sure local electrical store can guide you. And by electrical store, I don't mean Home Depot, etc.

home hardware, torbram electric supply, and if u wanna check the big box stores, try aikenheads or rona.

and BTW, I have installed one of those rectangular electrical boxes that do not require to be secured to a stud, they have clamps that goes behind the dry wall, and when you cut the hole in the dry wall, the "Ears" of the box sits on top of the dry wall, so it simply holds it in place once you tighten the clamp.

paolo,Jan 13 2010, 11:33 PM Wrote:home hardware, torbram electric supply, and if u wanna check the big box stores, try aikenheads or rona.

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You will need to set the dial back to before 1994 on one of these to get to "Aikenheads":

lmfao