09-25-2007, 04:00 AM
09-25-2007, 06:14 AM
oldeguy,Sep 24 2007, 02:00 PM Wrote:UAW, for GM in the States has gone on Strike. Lets hope they get a fair settlement. I personally hate strikes.
[right][snapback]249394[/snapback][/right]
Buzz Hargrove says that some plants in Oshawa will be on indefinite layoff as of tomorrow due to a part shortage.
God bless JIT inventory management. :rolleyes:
09-25-2007, 12:18 PM
*Fights the urge to say something nasty.*
*Succeeds*
Man, KOTOR is a great distraction tool!
*Succeeds*
Man, KOTOR is a great distraction tool!
09-25-2007, 11:12 PM
GM has just laid off 3,000 in Oshawa. The good news, ( for me ) my commute just got easier, not so many Corvettes on the road at 6:00 a.m. moving me out of the left lane, the bad news, these guys are my neighbours and they won't be spending their money in the local economy.
09-26-2007, 12:04 AM
NOS2Go4Me,Sep 24 2007, 10:18 PM Wrote:*Fights the urge to say something nasty.*
*Succeeds*
Man, KOTOR is a great distraction tool!
[right][snapback]249432[/snapback][/right]
:lol:
Best thing that could happen for GM.
Cuts enourmous costs while the don't need the extra production capacity.
I am sure they would be happy to have them strike for a few months, it would do wonders for their bottom line.
09-26-2007, 03:42 AM
If you believe that you clearly don't understand how the auto market works. Teamsters are no longer delivering cars. Orders are no longer being built.
A couple weeks, sure it would reduce inventory. But if you went onto a lot to buy an Focus SES in silver and all they had were Focus SE's in beige, would you buy it? And you can't order one for a few months?
No, you'd look at another manufacturer. That's where a protracted strike would hurt.
Do you understand what is meant by "inventory days"? When a company says that it has a 75 day supply of cars, it means that IF production stopped that day, how many days that it would take to COMPLETELY run out of cars at the at the current sale rate NOT accounting for the inventory mix. Just because a company stops producing it doesn't mean that suddenly they'll sell all their Aveos.
It could mean that in 10 days they'll run out of Enclaves (a hot seller); and even then the ones on the lot might not be the ones you've be willing to plunk down $40G for. Same with a $60G truck. Most people custom order their trucks because dealers don't keep $60G of truck sitting on the lots. Personally, I have a truck on order; with no strike it might not be here until November. I don't care if it's not here for another 6 months because it's a third vehicle for me -- for utility. But if I needed the truck for my business I might look elsewhere.
Strikes aren't great news for anyone -- the company, the worker, the suppliers, or the customer. But GM workers (and Ford and Chrysler workers) have given a lot back in the last 5 years; but sometimes it's necessary to make a stand when all of the giving is one-sided.
A couple weeks, sure it would reduce inventory. But if you went onto a lot to buy an Focus SES in silver and all they had were Focus SE's in beige, would you buy it? And you can't order one for a few months?
No, you'd look at another manufacturer. That's where a protracted strike would hurt.
Do you understand what is meant by "inventory days"? When a company says that it has a 75 day supply of cars, it means that IF production stopped that day, how many days that it would take to COMPLETELY run out of cars at the at the current sale rate NOT accounting for the inventory mix. Just because a company stops producing it doesn't mean that suddenly they'll sell all their Aveos.
It could mean that in 10 days they'll run out of Enclaves (a hot seller); and even then the ones on the lot might not be the ones you've be willing to plunk down $40G for. Same with a $60G truck. Most people custom order their trucks because dealers don't keep $60G of truck sitting on the lots. Personally, I have a truck on order; with no strike it might not be here until November. I don't care if it's not here for another 6 months because it's a third vehicle for me -- for utility. But if I needed the truck for my business I might look elsewhere.
Strikes aren't great news for anyone -- the company, the worker, the suppliers, or the customer. But GM workers (and Ford and Chrysler workers) have given a lot back in the last 5 years; but sometimes it's necessary to make a stand when all of the giving is one-sided.
09-26-2007, 03:54 AM
This could be the end of the Big 3.
Many Tier 2 and 3 suppliers were on the brink of bankruptcy before, this will tip them over the edge. Lack of components will then hurt supply to Ford and DCX.
If the strike lasts a long time, GM could go under. Maybe not immediately, but it could be a mortal blow and they'll be done within a year.
If GM goes under, Tier 1's will fall too. Again, that will hurt Ford and DCX. Ford can't take much more, they only have about 20-30B left, they've mortgaged everything, and with it being hard to get credit these days, they won't be able to sell off Volvo to save FoMoCo.
I'm glad I got the f*** out while the getting was good.
Many Tier 2 and 3 suppliers were on the brink of bankruptcy before, this will tip them over the edge. Lack of components will then hurt supply to Ford and DCX.
If the strike lasts a long time, GM could go under. Maybe not immediately, but it could be a mortal blow and they'll be done within a year.
If GM goes under, Tier 1's will fall too. Again, that will hurt Ford and DCX. Ford can't take much more, they only have about 20-30B left, they've mortgaged everything, and with it being hard to get credit these days, they won't be able to sell off Volvo to save FoMoCo.
I'm glad I got the f*** out while the getting was good.
09-26-2007, 05:29 AM
OAC_Sparky,Sep 25 2007, 01:42 PM Wrote:Strikes aren't great news for anyone -- the company, the worker, the suppliers, or the customer. But GM workers (and Ford and Chrysler workers) have given a lot back in the last 5 years; but sometimes it's necessary to make a stand when all of the giving is one-sided.
[right][snapback]249479[/snapback][/right]
Given back? Like what?
All I hear is 'give me, give me, give me, or else we strike' :rolleyes:
09-26-2007, 07:30 AM
Flofocus,Sep 25 2007, 03:29 PM Wrote:All I hear is 'give me, give me, give me, or else we strike' :rolleyes:Of course, you hear what you want to hear.
[right][snapback]249497[/snapback][/right]
Then you should branch out your reading to encompass more than this forum. Google "Delphi" and "two tier wages" and "flowback" and "plant closure" and "outsourcing".
Also do a search on how the average CEO in the US make 200+ times the average worker for the company they work for; and that the average Japanese company is about 20:1 .
That's a start.
09-26-2007, 07:59 AM
P-51,Sep 25 2007, 05: Wrote:This could be the end of the Big 3.
[right][snapback]249482[/snapback][/right]
are you shorting big 3 stock?
09-26-2007, 09:37 AM
Flofocus,Sep 25 2007, 03:29 PM Wrote:We gave concessions December of 06 to get the plant in oakville. We gave up many rights that we earned over 20 years to make the company efficient and profitable. We didn't lose more than the inconvienience of job shifts and we lost about 500 jobs which will come back to us (we hope) in the 2008 year.OAC_Sparky,Sep 25 2007, 01:42 PM Wrote:Strikes aren't great news for anyone -- the company, the worker, the suppliers, or the customer. But GM workers (and Ford and Chrysler workers) have given a lot back in the last 5 years; but sometimes it's necessary to make a stand when all of the giving is one-sided.
[right][snapback]249479[/snapback][/right]
Given back? Like what?
All I hear is 'give me, give me, give me, or else we strike' :rolleyes:
[right][snapback]249497[/snapback][/right]
The Americans gave health care concessions the last round of bargaining and now they want more. You have to take a stand at times, but this indeed will affect GM if it becomes a long strike. But I hope and doubt it will be. The last time we had any length of a strike was in the early 80's, when most of you were still in diapers. And we didn't give in and the company eventually gave the union what they wanted, but we lost jobs initally. We did gain those jobs back eventually, but it was hard times back then too.
Me, I just want to work. I don't think the same issues will affect us next year when the bargaining takes place for the CAW as the cost per hour for the American auto worker, in terms of health care costs, is up around $35 per hour, which really hurts the company and makes investing in Canada and Mexico financially advantageous.
09-26-2007, 11:22 PM
I just want to see the guys that want to work, work. And I want all the coasters and tag-alongs to go die in a corner somewhere. It's that simple.
Also, good call on the CEO pay-scale point. I've NEVER bought that CEOs are worth millions. It just heightens the class divide that we SHOULDN'T HAVE in a country this prosperous.
Also, the health care costs are a direct result of union negotiations for contracts as they're stipulated in the latest agreements. So, when your shift gets cut because your last negotiated contract elevated the cost of operations beyond the breaking point... who do you think is going to get fired? The fat cat who gets called a hero for "saving the company" and for "turning things around" or the hundreds/thousands of workers whose collective upkeep is lowering margins to the point of bankruptcy?
Again, I want the guys who want to work to work and to be able to find/hold work. However, the collective bargaining power of the unions has obviously caused another problem - at least in part.
Also, good call on the CEO pay-scale point. I've NEVER bought that CEOs are worth millions. It just heightens the class divide that we SHOULDN'T HAVE in a country this prosperous.
Also, the health care costs are a direct result of union negotiations for contracts as they're stipulated in the latest agreements. So, when your shift gets cut because your last negotiated contract elevated the cost of operations beyond the breaking point... who do you think is going to get fired? The fat cat who gets called a hero for "saving the company" and for "turning things around" or the hundreds/thousands of workers whose collective upkeep is lowering margins to the point of bankruptcy?
Again, I want the guys who want to work to work and to be able to find/hold work. However, the collective bargaining power of the unions has obviously caused another problem - at least in part.
09-26-2007, 11:26 PM
naz,Sep 25 2007, 09:59 PM Wrote:P-51,Sep 25 2007, 05: Wrote:This could be the end of the Big 3.
[right][snapback]249482[/snapback][/right]
are you shorting big 3 stock?
[right][snapback]249516[/snapback][/right]
I'm not betting anything.
I bet ON them in 2002 and lost a lot of money.
09-27-2007, 05:18 AM
meford4u,Sep 25 2007, 07:37 PM Wrote:Look at that, I was right again.Flofocus,Sep 25 2007, 03:29 PM Wrote:We gave concessions December of 06 to get the plant in oakville. We gave up many rights that we earned over 20 years to make the company efficient and profitable. We didn't lose more than the inconvienience of job shifts and we lost about 500 jobs which will come back to us (we hope) in the 2008 year.OAC_Sparky,Sep 25 2007, 01:42 PM Wrote:Strikes aren't great news for anyone -- the company, the worker, the suppliers, or the customer. But GM workers (and Ford and Chrysler workers) have given a lot back in the last 5 years; but sometimes it's necessary to make a stand when all of the giving is one-sided.
[right][snapback]249479[/snapback][/right]
Given back? Like what?
All I hear is 'give me, give me, give me, or else we strike' :rolleyes:
[right][snapback]249497[/snapback][/right]
The Americans gave health care concessions the last round of bargaining and now they want more. You have to take a stand at times, but this indeed will affect GM if it becomes a long strike. But I hope and doubt it will be. The last time we had any length of a strike was in the early 80's, when most of you were still in diapers. And we didn't give in and the company eventually gave the union what they wanted, but we lost jobs initally. We did gain those jobs back eventually, but it was hard times back then too.
Me, I just want to work. I don't think the same issues will affect us next year when the bargaining takes place for the CAW as the cost per hour for the American auto worker, in terms of health care costs, is up around $35 per hour, which really hurts the company and makes investing in Canada and Mexico financially advantageous.
[right][snapback]249519[/snapback][/right]
10-03-2007, 12:32 AM
You CAW guys realized yet the UAW screwed you? They will be trying to force GM to bring work back into the US.
10-03-2007, 05:09 AM
P-51,Oct 2 2007, 10: Wrote:You CAW guys realized yet the UAW screwed you? They will be trying to force GM to bring work back into the US.Oh ya, we know that the playing field for costs is now closer to equal than ever.
[right][snapback]250035[/snapback][/right]
10-03-2007, 11:18 PM
DesRosier and experts at the UofWindsor say it's actually cheaper in the US now.
But that's not even what I'm saying. The UAW seems to have forced GM into agreeing to INSOURCE new work into the US. Potentially forcing plant closures in Canada and Mexico.
Buzz is going to have a real hard time sticking to his stance of "No Concessions" next year.
Details of the jobs guarantee are really sketchy right now, but the die may already have been cast.
But that's not even what I'm saying. The UAW seems to have forced GM into agreeing to INSOURCE new work into the US. Potentially forcing plant closures in Canada and Mexico.
Buzz is going to have a real hard time sticking to his stance of "No Concessions" next year.
Details of the jobs guarantee are really sketchy right now, but the die may already have been cast.