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Blu-ray, HD DVD duel a dual-format draw says NEC

By Stan Beer
Wednesday, 11 October 2006
The high definition video format duel between Sony and Toshiba and their respective backers may be solved by dual-format technology from another Japanese technology giant NEC.

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Although NEC is a backer of HD DVD, the company has announced that it will produce two new low cost chips by April 2007 that can read both high definition formats. The new chips will reportedly greatly simplifying the manufacture of high definition players that can read both Blu-ray and HD DVD discs.

The Blu-ray versus HD DVD war has been raging since 2005 with no clear winner in sight. Each camp boasts big name backers. The Sony-backed Blu-ray is supported by the likes of IT giants HP, Dell and Apple, as well as electronics heavyweights Hitachi, Samsung, LG, Phillips, Matsus***a and others. Toshiba's HD DVD has a smaller but also impressive list including Microsoft, NEC, Sanyo and Thompson.

Blu-ray has a larger list of studios behind it but by and large all studios are sitting on the fence and hedging their bets until the technology waters become clearer.

At present, anecdotal evidence, as well as statistics from retailers appear to show that HD DVD has a clear early lead over Blu-ray in the format war, in terms of both player and movie title sales. However, Sony is set to push Blu-ray players into the homes of consumers in a big way through the back door, with the release of the much vaunted PlayStation 3.

If PS3 manages to achieve the sort of sales of its two predecessors, that could mean more than 100 million Blu-ray players going into consumers' homes by default from Sony alone over the next five years. That sort of number is too big for studios to ignore.

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http://www.itwire.com.au/content/view/6222/53/

And i thought this was gonna shape up to be a betamax vs vhs thing. I'm still holding off to see if either of these survive or something comes out and wipes them both out. Anyone remember the laser disk which was supposed to replace CD's and VHS. Never really went anywhere, could this be the same thing all over again.

lol matsus***a is censored

habmann,Oct 11 2006, 09:18 PM Wrote:And i thought this was gonna shape up to be a betamax vs vhs thing. I'm still holding off to see if either of these survive or something comes out and wipes them both out. Anyone remember the laser disk which was supposed to replace CD's and VHS. Never really went anywhere, could this be the same thing all over again.
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The only thing that these two new formats have over other formats that have come and gone is the fact they play existing DVD's, so don't render entire collections worthless. Laser disk players were doomed as a new format that was non-recordable and required an entirely new playback mechanism.

Having said that, I refuse to get into the whole Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD war because the benefits aren't worth the cost or hassle (My HDTV doesn't have HDMI connection, only DVI, for which there is a converter on the market, but no idea if it works).

If anyone thinks that Sony wins by having the PS3 play Blu-Ray, let me ask you this, how many of you that have PS2's ever played DVD's in your PS2 regularly and did you ever have to replace your PS2? Bet the answer if you said yes to the first question, is yes to the other.

NefCanuck

I'm really waiting at least another 2 years before I give a s***.

My receiver switches HDMI, my projector supports HDCP streams. I'm still only watching Cogeco's HD-feed via component cables. They actually told me not to bother running HDMI for the feed, even tho my box supports it.

As far as HD-DVD / Blu-Ray goes, it's a clusterf***. They should have all learned from the Betamax / VHS debacle. But they didn't. So, I'm in no rush to adopt any other formats.

I watched DVDs solely from my PS2 for the longest time.. before I got a HT in a box.. and even then, the system won't play all DVDs flawlessly, so occasionally, I'm forced to put them in the PS2 for playback (doesn't pay to be a cheapass I guess)...

Anyhoo.. beta vs VHS.. well, beta didn't REALLY die.. it evolved and found it's way into video production (BetaCam > VTR).

As for the latest format wars.. I'm betting on blueray. HDDVD is an evolution of existing DVD technology, to which there are limits. Blueray is probably the more future proof of the two... and if you can get it in a relatively cheap player, all the better for the consumer.

Right now, there's no simple choice between the two, as movies are limited, compatability is negligible, and costs are high. The PS3 will be lowest entry cost to the next gen, but that itself may start a price war between the formats, and if we go back to the beta-vhs wars, the lower cost wins in the long run.

However, things are a bit different these days. Lowest cost isn't the prime motivator it once used to be in customer's buying decisions. Sure, it's important, but people, especially the ones with the disposable income to buy into the 1st round of next gen hardware are a lot more informed and willing to pay to play.

darkpuppet,Oct 12 2006, 10:45 AM Wrote:I watched DVDs solely from my PS2 for the longest time.. before I got a HT in a box.. and even then, the system won't play all DVDs flawlessly, so occasionally, I'm forced to put them in the PS2 for playback (doesn't pay to be a cheapass I guess)...

However, things are a bit different these days.  Lowest cost isn't the prime motivator it once used to be in customer's buying decisions.  Sure, it's important, but people, especially the ones with the disposable income to buy into the 1st round of next gen hardware are a lot more informed and willing to pay to play.
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Hrm, then you must have gotten a decent PS2 unit because many of the people I spoke to who were early adaptors and used the PS2 for movies on a regular basis (at least one movie a night in addition to game playing) found their read laser dead after about a year.

I'm surprised that you say that price isn't as big a factor as it once was to the adaptation of new technology. I mean sure the people with the disposable income might be more willing to jump, but Mr. & Mrs. Consumer look at their large collection of DVD's and then at the two new formats that offer nothing to them unless they've already dropped serious coin on a new HDTV and go "I dinnae think so laddie <_< "

Until and unless the new formats can offer something unique to the format (eg: recording large amounts of TV, say 12+ hrs) the new formats will go nowhere in the general conciousness IMO.

NefCanuck

... I hate my life sometimes <_<

Gah, triple post :angry:

^-- you fail at interweb...

I had a 1st run PS2 console, got it on the 2nd day they were released, and the ink was barely dry on the box. That machine lasted me about 3 years before it needed replacing, and not because of the laser, but because the USB/rumble surface mount fuse blew and it was cheaper to trade in for a new one than get it repaired.

I'm only on my 2nd PS2 at the moment, and it's seen a lot of use.. maybe not as hardcore as some, but definitely not as neglected as others.

The cost factor may not be as big a factor with blueray and hddvd right now for the same reasons you say it would be. The people who are going to buy either are the ones with compatible TVs and hardware... so that's gonna spur the initial growth.

That and the fact that sony made a smart choice by including it's format in the latest Playstation... that's going to be a huge inroad, and it's going to be 'reasonably' which may touch off a price war between formats.

Right now, it's anyone's guess. I'd rather see blueray win out as it should be able to at least read HDDVD disks (even if a flash update may be required), which HDDVD can't say about blueray.

Also, I've started seeing writeable media for the blueray disks now... and let me tell ya, that's some cool s*** right there...that's a lot of space on a single disk.

And as pissed off as I am at sony for their recent lack of quality construction (why is the rubber sheathing disintegrating on my $90earbuds?), I really do hope blueray wins.

darkpuppet,Oct 12 2006, 11:13 AM Wrote:^-- you fail at interweb...

Right now, it's anyone's guess.  I'd rather see blueray win out as it should be able to at least read HDDVD disks (even if a flash update may be required), which HDDVD can't say about blueray. 

Also, I've started seeing writeable media for the blueray disks now... and let me tell ya, that's some cool s*** right there...that's a lot of space on a single disk. 

And as pissed off as I am at sony for their recent lack of quality construction (why is the rubber sheathing disintegrating on my $90earbuds?), I really do hope blueray wins.
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You think I fail at the interweb? You should see where I am in the office hockey pool right now <_< (Try 52nd out of 52 entries total)

If Blu-Ray can in fact read HD-DVD disks with as little as a FlashROM update that is a huge point in its favour (Though it better be a bulletproof upgrade, 'cause I've done my fair share of FlashROM upgrades, PC BIOS'etc. PITA doesn't begin to describe it :ph34r: )

What capacities for A/V are those disks? To be sucessful as a read/write device I think it would have to offer at least as much as a VCR does at the longest setting (6hrs using normal tapes) to have a real chance of sucess with eh general public.

Really? I'm actually impressed so far with the new Sony camera I picked up (You saw it at the cruise) much more solid construction that the Canon digital my dad picked up (The Canon has lots of flimsy rubber covers for things that are gonna break off/flake off, long before anything on the Sony lets go)

NefCanuck

NefCanuck,Oct 12 2006, 11:29 AM Wrote:Really?  I'm actually impressed so far with the new Sony camera I picked up (You saw it at the cruise) much more solid construction that the Canon digital my dad picked up (The Canon has lots of flimsy rubber covers for things that are gonna break off/flake off, long before anything on the Sony lets go)
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I'd still take any Canon over a Sony. :P But I do admit, your cam is a beauty!

Anyway, back on topic :lol: Steve sounds about right, people get very knowledgeable when such expensive choices come into play, and I do believe although Sony has come out with the most expensive console on the market, it will sell in amazing numbers. In the same breath, I think Nintendo's Wii, and M$' 360 will kick butt. It's all a matter of how much people want to spend at one given time... or wait until they have the funds to own which ever one(s) they like. I hate money.

the wii is going to fail miserably...

Ok, not fail, but it'll fill in a subniche of gamecube owners and hardcore fans, while losing a bit more market share to the others. But that's alright.. They're not in the comodotized gaming market anymore... so they don't need the numbers the others do.

One thing that's going to HURT the PS3.. online capabilities... I don't think they could measure up to Live, and while I'm very much anti-online gaming (due to all the pricks out there), it's something that's going to weigh heavily on the next gen wars.

anyways... the capacity of a single layer blueray disk should, if my calculations are correct, hold 1-1.5 hour of video at full progressive scan resolutions and bitrates... or 3-4 at dvd quality, or 6-8 at vhs quality. Double those numbers for the inevitable dual layer disks.

And while both formats use the same blue laser, blueray has a bigger numerical aperature, meaning they're able to nearly double the bitrates and capacity of HDDVD.

both the blueray and HDDVD technology have to sell before your going to have a clear winner.

Sony's way of thinking kinda has me concerned, you may have a better technology in the PS3 but how many people are going to pay the premium for a console/home media center in november. if they are projecting to sell 100 million PS3 units, which is the combined total of the PS1 and PS2.

how long did it take them to sell that many units? i think PS has been around since 1994, and if it took till 2004 to sell 100 million units. i'm guessing at all this, so correct me if i'm wrong.

even if it took 5 years for the PS3 to sell 100 million units to get blueray in that many homes, a lot can change in 5 years. who know what will be created in that time frame.

darkpuppet,Oct 12 2006, 12:42 PM Wrote:the wii is going to fail miserably...

Ok, not fail, but it'll fill in a subniche of gamecube owners and hardcore fans, while losing a bit more market share to the others.  But that's alright.. They're not in the comodotized gaming market anymore... so they don't need the numbers the others do.

One thing that's going to HURT the PS3.. online capabilities... I don't think they could measure up to Live, and while I'm very much anti-online gaming (due to all the pricks out there),  it's something that's going to weigh heavily on the next gen wars.

anyways... the capacity of a single layer blueray disk should, if my calculations are correct, hold 1-1.5 hour of video at full progressive scan resolutions and bitrates...  or 3-4 at dvd quality, or 6-8 at vhs quality.  Double those numbers for the inevitable dual layer disks.
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You're calling for the Wii to flop? Hoo boy hope you have the heat shields handy to block the flamage that staement will earn you in some quarters ;)

Y'know as much as I like the idea of on-line gaming, it gets inevitrably ruined by the cheaters/PK'ers/etc. that pop up like weeds... I want to play a game and relax, not get all paranoid wondering if my opponent that I can't see is on a level playing field with me.

Okay those numbers for Blu-Ray recordable disks are in line with what I think they need to be to gain general acceptance, now someone just has to invent a bulletproof recording mechanism for the part of the public that still can't get the hang of recording things on their VCR/DVR :ph34r:

NefCanuck

the only thing the Wii has going for it is it's cheap price and novelty. I don't think people are going to like using the wii-mote controller the way it was intended in the long run.. I guess time, and repetitive stress injuries will tell.

Not to mention the alienation of the physically handicapped!

*ahem* .. the playstation brand broke 100 million units in 2005 I believe.... and I thought that was a 'combined' number. Interesting trivia tho.. in the 1st year the PS2 was out, it was outsold by the redesigned PSONE. So there IS a market for the not latest technology... but a part o me likes to believe that was assisted by the fact that people wouldn't lose their software investments when they finally moved on to the PS2.

it's going to be interesting, this next round... things are definitely going up a notch or two.... actually, it's already been going on without sony's participation. Too bad I so badly hate the xbox controller.

steve needs symetry

darkpuppet,Oct 12 2006, 02:51 PM Wrote:the only thing the Wii has going for it is it's cheap price and novelty.  I don't think people are going to like using the wii-mote controller the way it was intended in the long run..  I guess time, and repetitive stress injuries will tell.

Not to mention the alienation of the physically handicapped!

*ahem* .. the playstation brand broke 100 million units in 2005 I believe.... and I thought that was a 'combined' number.  Interesting trivia tho.. in the 1st year the PS2 was out, it was outsold by the redesigned PSONE.    So there IS a market for the not latest technology... but a part o me likes to believe that was assisted by the fact that people wouldn't lose their software investments when they finally moved on to the PS2.
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Y'know, funny you should mention that about the alienation of the physically handicapped... Now I haven't held a Wii controller myself yet, but visually it looks the easiest of the next gen consoles for me as a one and a half handed user to use (Esp. if the "free swing" mode) The hand acrobatics I have to pull with some titles on the PS2 would be funny if they weren't so depressing :( and that's with a mini controller yet. The XBox? not on a prayer, NVM a wing, even the smaller controller is a mishmash of buttons

NefCanuck