so im planning on installing cams and cam gears like really soon.
i wanna do it soon enough because i want to change my timming belt as well cuz car has 177k on it
i was planning to go with stage 2 cams
tell me please what is a good brand for cams ?
for cam gears i've been told it doesn't really matter and that is Focus Central are common ones to go with
where can i get both for a good price?
and whats a good labour price on those?
my buddy had his cams and cam gears with timming belt installed for $300 something
is that any good?
thanks
Nick
Depends if the cam gears were also dyno tuned or not. Just for an install, that's rather high, assuming he supplied the parts.
book time on a timing belt assuming there are no siezed bolts is about 2 hours, to swap the cams is another 1.5hours or so.
I'd bank on a 4-5hour install just to be safe.
tuning said gears would be extra and dyno tuning is the only effective way in both time and cost to tune siad gears.
As for good brands...
a better question is what do you want as each brand has a different effect for a "stage2". BTW, asking for a stage2,3,10 is a bad way of looking for parts. ask what would best suit your goals, you will get better results/input in most cases.
i would stay away from any cam gear that does NOT have 5 gear bolts. there are some decent/cheap 4 bolt gears which will work, but i still suggest paying the extra $10-40 for a good 5 bolt gear. Less chance of gear slippage due to lessened clamp load of 3/4 bolt gears compared to 5bolt gears.
if you are doing all this, upgrade to a set of ARP cam gear bolts. while the stock bolts can be reused and will function fine, the T55 drive can easily be stripped on removal or install of the bolts onto the new cams and gears. plus the ARPs are a standard 12pt configuration so a standard 12pt box-end wrench can be used...
as for good brands, if you are looking at used parts, look strictly at FC, Esslinger and FR gears. they all share the same 5bolt design and all have hardend teeth.
STAY AWAY from the older Kents as the teeth are not hardend and can become rounded and cause the timing belt to ride back and forth on the gear rather than staying centered.
The new version "light weight" kenst are a nice gear but they only have 6ð of adjustment each way. more than enough if your cams were PERFECTLY degree'd in but if you are out 2-5ð, which is common, you have effectly eliminated much or most of your adjustment.
the FR, FC and Esslingers all have 10-12ð each way of adjustment which is another reason why i suggest them.
as for cams...
they are all good cams.
i really like the Crane2s for a good all around cam.
the FR2s have a little less in the middle and a little more up top than the crane2s.
the Crower2 are more of a high midrange/top end cam.
the Kents are also a good allround cam but for the price i suggest the Crane2s for a better drive, the kents will make a bit more power peak IIRC.
I'm not super familiar with the CATs or the Comp cams but they are not much different from the ones listed above i specs so i would imagine you will see most of your gains in the top of the midrange to the high end.
with any cams, it's not a bad idea to look into a custom tune, even if it is a basic tune if nothing more than to bump the idle to 1000rpm for a smooth idle.
almost all of the cams above are designe to make power between 2200-6800rpms. some make a little more down lower while others make a little more up top, both sacraficing the opposite to achive the end result.
good luck in your search, if you have any questions, please ask away!
contact me I may have someone who can do the cam/belt/gear install. We did mine it too around 2 hours.
His rates are more than fair, much less than $300 !
ZX3TUNING,Sep 14 2006, 11:02 PM Wrote:book time on a timing belt assuming there are no siezed bolts is about 2 hours, to swap the cams is another 1.5hours or so.
I'd bank on a 4-5hour install just to be safe.
tuning said gears would be extra and dyno tuning is the only effective way in both time and cost to tune siad gears.
As for good brands...
a better question is what do you want as each brand has a different effect for a "stage2". BTW, asking for a stage2,3,10 is a bad way of looking for parts. ask what would best suit your goals, you will get better results/input in most cases.
i would stay away from any cam gear that does NOT have 5 gear bolts. there are some decent/cheap 4 bolt gears which will work, but i still suggest paying the extra $10-40 for a good 5 bolt gear. Less chance of gear slippage due to lessened clamp load of 3/4 bolt gears compared to 5bolt gears.
if you are doing all this, upgrade to a set of ARP cam gear bolts. while the stock bolts can be reused and will function fine, the T55 drive can easily be stripped on removal or install of the bolts onto the new cams and gears. plus the ARPs are a standard 12pt configuration so a standard 12pt box-end wrench can be used...
as for good brands, if you are looking at used parts, look strictly at FC, Esslinger and FR gears. they all share the same 5bolt design and all have hardend teeth.
STAY AWAY from the older Kents as the teeth are not hardend and can become rounded and cause the timing belt to ride back and forth on the gear rather than staying centered.
The new version "light weight" kenst are a nice gear but they only have 6ð of adjustment each way. more than enough if your cams were PERFECTLY degree'd in but if you are out 2-5ð, which is common, you have effectly eliminated much or most of your adjustment.
the FR, FC and Esslingers all have 10-12ð each way of adjustment which is another reason why i suggest them.
as for cams...
they are all good cams.
i really like the Crane2s for a good all around cam.
the FR2s have a little less in the middle and a little more up top than the crane2s.
the Crower2 are more of a high midrange/top end cam.
the Kents are also a good allround cam but for the price i suggest the Crane2s for a better drive, the kents will make a bit more power peak IIRC.
I'm not super familiar with the CATs or the Comp cams but they are not much different from the ones listed above i specs so i would imagine you will see most of your gains in the top of the midrange to the high end.
with any cams, it's not a bad idea to look into a custom tune, even if it is a basic tune if nothing more than to bump the idle to 1000rpm for a smooth idle.
almost all of the cams above are designe to make power between 2200-6800rpms. some make a little more down lower while others make a little more up top, both sacraficing the opposite to achive the end result.
good luck in your search, if you have any questions, please ask away!
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Mitch thank you , that is alot of info
i may still contact you on my msn
That would be me..I had a Focus..BACK in the day.
Now drive a 500hp Grand Prix 4 door boat :D
Anyways, Couple hours to swap cam and timing belt, PM me if interested I'm in Oshawa.
I have the proper tools and I have done it LOTS of times.
I agree with Mitch; I just recently installed a set of Crane stage 2 cams. I really like them-a little choppy at idle so I bumped the idle speed a touch to smooth things out. Pulls hard to redline as well! Best part of the Crane cams is they did not require me to exchange buckets as the clearances were all within Ford specs right out of the box.
You will feel more from your cams as a total package as opposed to a single mod; I recommend I/H/E for starters before cams. You won't need adjustable gears until you are ready to put it on the dyno and start tuning. Elsewise you are really flying blind if you start making adjustments and relying on the butt dyno. We all know how accurate that is!
All i have to add to this is make sure that your cam gears have the appropriate profile and duration at .50 for they type of setup you plan to run with the car. Eg are you planning on going forced induction ? etc that kinda thing. I believe that crane cams makes an excellent stage 2 cam for the zetec, remember all cams are not created equal!
cam gears do not have a profile or duration.
and it's duration at 0.050" of lift.
but unless you understand cam profiling and how different durations and different lifts will alter the powerband/powerdelivery, these numbers mean nothing.
about all you need to know is more than .390" of lift usually requires springs and retainers.
^^^Mitch what cam gears and cams do you have in stock?
and prices if you can
thanks
Jays2000ZX3,Sep 15 2006, 09:12 AM Wrote:That would be me..I had a Focus..BACK in the day.
Now drive a 500hp Grand Prix 4 door boat :D
Anyways, Couple hours to swap cam and timing belt, PM me if interested I'm in Oshawa.
I have the proper tools and I have done it LOTS of times.
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Ummm, you got a GXP with the 5.3? That's a hella cool car...
Jays2000ZX3,Sep 15 2006, 09:12 AM Wrote:That would be me..I had a Focus..BACK in the day.
Now drive a 500hp Grand Prix 4 door boat :D
Anyways, Couple hours to swap cam and timing belt, PM me if interested I'm in Oshawa.
I have the proper tools and I have done it LOTS of times.
[right][snapback]207197[/snapback][/right]
sweet man,,,,what exectly do u charge for installing......it is a lil bit of a drive for me to where u are
"""cam gears do not have a profile or duration.
and it's duration at 0.050" of lift.
but unless you understand cam profiling and how different durations and different lifts will alter the powerband/powerdelivery, these numbers mean nothing."""
yeah sorry typo on my part , i ment cams ... duhhh of course cam gears have no profile or duration , i ment cams .... and yes you can look at numbers and figure out how they relate to where power is going to be and how it is going to come on when you are ont he gas, for instance the zetec IMHO , has quite the problem with its stock cams and the exhaust side of the engine , i feel that the engine is really held back by this , the intake side not so much. If you take a look at build ups of this engine , the first thing that people start with when they just get cam gears is working on the exhaust side of the engine, then later they start building the intake side , but first for mild work in my opinion only the exhaust side needs to work well.
Nick , i would seriously recommend that if you are going to spend all of this money on cams and cam gears , and perhaps a header, see if you can get a head package. Perhaps this way you can get a head with cam gears and cams already on it and one that is ported and polished for better flow. It might be a little more money but all in all it would be totally worth it and it saves from doing the work later. Also this allows you to take the head off and check the enigne out a little , see how its doing and replacing a head gasket is always a good idea when your engine has some k's on it . Its not difficult to do , you need a new gasket and a torque wrench. Also the exhaust is coming off and the intake has to come off as well. So if your thinking about getting headers it might be an idea since they have to come off , so you would get your head package including the cams, timing gears, and header and bolt em all on at the same time , then head to somone for tuning.
My long 2 cents worth lol
Jays2000ZX3,Sep 15 2006, 10:12 AM Wrote:That would be me..I had a Focus..BACK in the day.
Now drive a 500hp Grand Prix 4 door boat :D
Anyways, Couple hours to swap cam and timing belt, PM me if interested I'm in Oshawa.
I have the proper tools and I have done it LOTS of times.
[right][snapback]207197[/snapback][/right]
*cough* Bulls*** *cough*
^^ lol sounds like a guy who knows what he's doing
Nick,
right now i do not have any cams or cam gears in stock, i can get pretty much anything. here is the pricing....
Crane Cams:
$420cnd
FR Cams:
$440cnd
Comp Cams:
$420cnd
Kent Cams:
$520cnd
Kent Cam Gears:
$350cnd
Kent Competition Cam Belt:
$75cnd
CFM Cam Gears:
$230
ARP Cam Bolts:
$65cnd
AEM Cam installation tool kit:
$30cnd
all prices are plus tax and shipping.
package shipping possible, PM for details.
for the record, i'd suggest the Crane2s, CFM cam gears, ARP bolts, Kent cam belt and AEM tools for the best results as a package...
Mitch,would i really need AEM tools? cuz im not puttin mine myself in, mechenic is going to do it
and i would def gonna go with the package....just not sure about those tools
thanks