FocusCanada Forums

I'm still stupified.

I'll try to keep this short. But it's long... but you'll want to read it, it's amazing.

I bought a WRX because when I worked at Dana, they had a car allowance, but I had to have a car worth at least $22kUS. Now that I don't work there anymore and I have to make the payments myself, I just find it's not worth it for a daily driver. It's just too much.

So I want out, and I really like a ZX5 with the GFX package. I like the way they drive, and they're cheap. So, I'm shopping around, but of course I'm upsidedown on my loan, which complicates things. I owe $26.5k (CDN), but WRX's with my milage sell for around $23ish. Still, it could work out, if I could get $22k for the trade, I'd save another $3300 in taxes on the new car, so not bad.

I went to one dealer, Summit Ford in Toronto, they had the car I was looking for, so we tried to work out a deal. They took the details on my car and were going to shop it around for a buyer. He calls me back two days later, and says he can give me $22k for it. So, I go in the next day. I take a test drive, it's all going fine, but when we go to crunch the numbers, he tells me the sales manager thought my car had leather, and didn't know about some minor damage. Even though the salesguy had seen it and wrote it down on an official form. He appologizes, but can only offer $20,500 now.

Now, Ford Canada has Employee Pricing for Everyone going on right now. So the prices are fixed. I know exactly what the car costs, and what the payments should be at the 3.9% they are doing with the EPE.

I said, we'll talk more about the trade value, let's look at the numbers for now. He does the back and forth between the sales manager with a piece of paper thing. Comes back with $630/month. "Um... my WRX payments are $729, there's something wrong here." I look at the numbers, and they taxed me on the value of the trade, instead of subtracting that from the tax on the new car like they should. Then he comes back with $550/month. Still too high, I said I thought it should be $440. I didn't realize, among other things they had added freight, when it's already included in the EPE price, and they still taxed me on the new car.

At that point, I walked out, this is dumb. It only really hit me later, there's no way that their sales manager would make basic accounting errors, I think they were intentionally trying to screw me.

So, I start shopping around, calling around, seeing if anybody will give me a decent value for my trade. Most offer around $19k CDN, which is absurd for a WRX, less than 2 years old with 84,000km on it, cost $35k new.

I find a guy at Cruickshank Ford in Toronto who says he'll work with me. So I go in. They check out my car, and call around. They come back and offer me $21k, I figure it's the best I'm gonna get, so I agree. He wanted to take the new Focus for a test drive, even though I didn't really need to cause I already have, but whatever. Go for a drive. This one is pretty good, I'm sold.

So, we figure out exactly what options I want, and he's going to do a dealer search. But first he does the build and price online to get the EPE price, and writes that down on the worksheet. Then he asks me how I want to pay for the $6000 upsidedownness. I said I wanted to finance it. He said you can't. I said, well, I'm really only upsidedown like $2000 once you figure the tax implications. He comes back, and asks if I can put down $1000. I say fine. He writes down on the worksheet "$437 60/96". I was pretty happy, because finally I'm getting somewhere. There's the $440 I thought it should be. The like /96 was curious, but, whatever. I had no idea what was happening. He gives me a credit app to fill out.

So, I'm done with the salesman, and they send me over to see slick willie. You know the guy. Slicked back hair, pinstripe suit... the guy who tries to upsell you.

First he tries the life/disability insurance thing. Nope.

Then the extended warranty. Nope. But that takes forever.

Then he tries the rust proofing/undercoating/fabric protection/paint coating. Nope.

He's getting frustrated.

He goes back to the disability insurance. NO!

Think about the extended warranty. NO!

I said: "Look, we'll be here all night, I'm not going to buy any of this other stuff."

Fine he says, and prints out the official Ford sales form. He shows it, and it says the sale price is $29,999. I question it, he says nevermind, that's just because we're doing a dealer trade we don't know the price yet.

Now, here's where it becomes a blurr. I can't remember how I got tipped off, but he said something like "So that'll be 60 payments of $437, plus residual." Or something like that.

"What?"

"60 payments, plus there's a balloon payment."

"What balloon payment?"

"Well, this is a 96 month loan, amortized for 60 months."

"What does THAT mean?"

"Well, it's like your mortgage, it's 25 years, but you arrange payments for only 5 years at a time or whatever."

"Hold up, so I make 60 payments of $437, but then I'm not done?"

"Yeah, you still owe 36 payments."

"WHAT?!"

"It's a 60/96 loan".

I look back down at the sheet, and I see it's an 8.9% loan, not a 3.9%. I ask what happened to the 3.9%.

"Well, this isn't a Ford Credit loan."

"Why not?"

"Well, you're upside down on your trade in, that's gotta come from somewhere."

"36 payments of $437, what is that?!"

I'm feeverishly trying to do the math in my head... "That's like $12,000!!! Are you CRAZY!"

"Well, you're upsidedown!"

"$2000, and I just put down $1000!"

"That's it, I'm done, give me my ownership back." Which I'd signed over and everything.

He tells me I should talk to the sales manager. I go in, think *maybe* I can salvage this. It's the end of the month, maybe they really do want to sell a car.

Nope. The salesmanager pulls the same BS line. "The upside down loan had to come from somewhere." I grab his calculator, $437x36 "is $14,000! Are you f***ing kidding me? Do you think I'm STUPID?!" $437X96 "Is $42,000, that's what the WRX cost tax in!!!"

I pretty much stormed out at that point.

Oh, the best part, the girl who runs the credit card machine already left, so they can't refund my deposit! I gotta go back in tomorrow to refund it!

I'm still sitting here.... absolutely incredulous... I can't believe what they tried to pull! I can't believe how close I was to practically signing my life away.

What a bunch of, in my opinion ;), CRIMINALS! I would have... I dunno, if I hadn't caught that, and it had went through... they're THIEVES, in my opinion. I think they're EVIL.

I really don't understand how FoMoCo can let this happen.

I'd heard the dealers were desperate because the EPE makes it impossible for them to work the price. But I had NO idea!

Dude that totally sux. I can't believe that 2 different dealers would try to pull stupid s*** like that.

That's sickeningly shady. Just think of all the people that they must have already suckered in though, they should be ashamed.

Must be a common thing for Ford dealers to do, just look at the website you cant even get a decent quote unless you go to the dealer.

You said you were upsidedown is that calculating the remaining payments or were you calculating that based on remainder you owed to Subaru if you were to trade it in. Im thinking they want to charge you for the remaining interest payments plus the 3.9, that is assuming you financed through subaru.

I dont know if it makes sence its late and Im tired.

I know i've been schooled allot of times I went into dealers, but nothing that bad! I'd send this story to ford of canada and see what they have to say.

I'm not defending Ford, sounds pretty crappy. I can't say that I've been in your spot, I generally privately sell my cars or trade in ones that they offer close to the asking price or market value.

That said, a few things --

As employees, we pay the frieght. Unless it says somewhere in the advertising to the contrary, freight is not included. So if it is true "Ford Employee Pricing" then the freight is extra.

What the salesman told toy about Ford Credit is true. They finance NEW cars; not used cars, not partially funding upside-down loans. They're not a bank. They're an extension of the manufacturing arm, they give you a break on the financing in order to sell a NEW car.

FWIW, my advice would be to either:

a ) sell the car privately. Pay off the WRX, take a small bank loan out if you have to make up the difference, and get a new vehicle; or

b ) keep the WRX to the point that you aren't upside-down on it, then trade it.

Seems like a lot of hassle to rush in and get into a high-rate loan.

Either way, you should contact FOMoCO if you feel they're jilting you; make sure you have names and such when you call.

Ford of Canada Customer Relationship Centre
1-800-565-3673 (FORD)

Holy crap! You have to be kidding.

Had you signed on that line. WOW. Skrewed with a capital "S"

So you still have the WRX right? You DON'T own the Focus correct?

Sell the WRX on EBAY.

Is there a complaint you make for this? BBB or something. That's insane that he would let you sign that without FULLY explaining it. I';m aware of BUYER BEWARE but geeze, that's enoguh to give one a heart attack!

Nice save.

Hey P-51 where about do you live. Cause Id be happy to take you to MT. Brydges ford near london. None of this bull would be happening as my mother grew up with the family that owns that dealership. So they all know me and there a bunch of nice people out there. would probibly work somthing out.

Even for a car dealer that's pretty low - but predictable from Cruickshank - you may want to bounce any potential dealer off the group here for feedback before going in - I could have steered you away from those guys and that's using "inside" info.

No offense to Sparky but don't even bother with their 800 numbers - their process is designed to steer you back to the dealership at every turn and you won't ever get to communicate with anyone in authority.

If you're intent on giving your feedback to Ford, I'd like to offer some thought-starters.

1 ) send a letter to Robert Girard, Vice President General Sales, The Canadian Road, Oakville, ON L6J 5E4

2 ) Do not send a hand-written letter and make sure you're envelope is not hand-written. Hand written envelopes aren't even opened by his office - they go straight to the customer service folks.

3) Make your letter concise and to the point - use headlines or paragraph headers to help the reader navigate your letter.

4 ) Make sure you're opening paragraph is a grabber ... something like "Mr. Girard, you may be interested to know how your marketing dollars are being spent to turn customers away from Ford."

PM me if you want to know where the "good" dealers are - the info that Ford has but would never share with a customer.

Glad you weren't stung and don't give up ... there are excellent dealers out there (even Ford ones) who will give you the straight goods even it the advice is "don't buy now" - you just have to be lucky or have inside info to connect with them.

BTW - you didn't mention if it was a 2006 or 2007 model - let me know and I can give you the dealer pricing on the vehicle which will help you figure out how good the deal really is.

I think somebody there really needs to get their head examined. If you had signed... you would be screwed....
Honestly, I think you should start looking into a private sale... either that or bring it into downtown Ottawa on Canada Day... "tempo" esque ;)

that is nuts. good thing you are a smart guy. most people would not have been able to run the numbers like that, and would be totally screwed.

i think the 'upsidedown'ness makes you really vulnerable.. private party sale and suck up the loss, or wait until you aren't upsidedown and trade in IMHO

Hopefully you get your deposit back..
I ran into a case the other day with a dealership that kept the deposit because it cost the sales manager that much money to do all the accounting..
Like I said, I work for Toyota Canada, a dealership in Totonto was refusing to
He charged $75/e-mail written and $400/hour for his services.. HAHAHA

Damn, thats crazy.

That's why you have to read everything before you sign it, because of wrinkles like this. In your case it was issue with the upsidedowness on the Subaru that really set the table for what happened. The more complex the deal is, the more opportunities for these kind of things to happen.

Hell, it's my business to read documents and I nearly got burned by a scuzzy website (movietickets.com iirc) that didn't disclose a recurring charge on your credit card until after you had signed up for the service, they kept gushing all over the website "free, free, free" after the inital payment of a small amount. <_<

As to buying a car, I prefer cash deals, it pisses dealers off that they can't upsell me any of their financing trash, but it means I control the process completely.

NefCanuck

it's funny how I complain that dealerships don't seem to want to cut me any deals. But I'm pretty friggin' lucky that they don't try to outright bend me over.

Wow... I lived just down the street from Crookshank (a truer name was never coined) at Weston/Little Av by the Shoppers Drug Mart. I'd always hear from my Dad about how bad they were. When I was shopping for my first (used) car at 19, he made me swear I'd never go there.

The more things change...

It's almost disturbing that they've stayed the same way over the last 15 years or so. They bilk old people and working families regularly, because they're too busy / tired to see through the BS.

Ha Ha... I bought my focus from Cruickshank. I didn't have a problem with them. Then, again I paid cash if full for my car and I told the "business manager" up front that I wasn't paying any extra dollars for my car. So unless he was going to give me those upsell extras for free, save his breath.

sorry to hear about this tragic tale of dealership morals. i guess you kinda feel almost like me. but i do hope you find a dealer that is actually truthful enough to get you what you want.

Crummy deal man, and it's good that you stopped yourself short...

I think that dealerships should HAVE to tell you everything in every deal, by law. I've had good luck with the Lincoln dealership in Brantford, and I'm considering buying my next car from them...