Quote:Tories table bill to crack down on street racing
CTV.ca News Staff
The federal government tabled a bill Thursday to make street racing a crime.
The proposed legislation will add the specific activity of street racing to the Criminal Code and if passed, will mean those convicted will face driving bans and stiffer sentences.
The legislation was introduced at the outset of business in the House of Commons on Thursday and Justice Minister Vic Toews detailed the new bill at a morning news conference in Ottawa.
"It's a very dangerous activity and we want to send a very clear message that people are only entitled to use our public highways if they obey specific laws," Toews told reporters.
Back in May, Prime Minister Stephen Harper promised federal action on the issue, saying the Tories will propose changes to the laws in line with those urged by late B.C. MP Chuck Cadman.
Cadman, who died in July after a battle with skin cancer, had previously drafted a private-member's bills demanding stiffer penalties for both street racing and vehicle theft.
Street racers currently convicted of dangerous driving face a maximum sentence of five years. If someone is injured, the maximum is 10 years, and 14 years if someone is killed.
Street racing accidents
Street racing has been blamed on several deaths and injuries across the country in recent years.
Just last week, a 31-year-old Ontario man was killed when he was reportedly racing his Porsche west of Toronto.
And last month an Ontario couple celebrating their 17th wedding anniversary were killed north of Toronto when their vehicle was struck by a young man in a street race.
In January, a 46-year-old Toronto cab driver died when he was caught in the middle of an alleged street race between two Toronto students.
The same month, four men were killed in Vancouver when their car slammed into a lamppost.
The street racing bill follows Conservative legislation to impose mandatory minimum sentences for crimes involving guns and for ending conditional sentences for violent offenders.
The government also plans to raise the age of consent for sex to 16 from 14.
Two street-racing cars to be destroyed
Meanwhile, in an attempt to bring attention to the issue in Ontario, York Regional Police and Attorney General Michael Bryant will destroy two cars forfeited for speeding and dangerous driving.
"The message is clear: this is what will happen to your prized possession if you continue to race on York Region roads," York Regional Police Chief Armand La Barge said in a press release Thursday.
The vehicles, which were stopped in separate incidences in 2004 and 2005, were substantially modified for street racing.
"Street racing is a dangerous, unlawful activity that puts innocent people at risk," La Barge said
Since 1999, 34 people have been killed by street racing in the Greater Toronto area alone.
I really dont support this for 1 reason.
It will be enforced by the officers discretion.
'Street racing' can be anything to an anal police officer.
This WILL be abused by the popo. Guaranteed. Now they can destroy your ride that youve worked so hard to make. Big wheels and lowered suspension? Must be modifed for street racing :rolleyes:
I think this would be a great piece of legislation if it wasn't so vague. Like flo said, its really up to the discrestion of the officer. Is a turbo'd focus considered modified for street racing? Where is the line? Maybe with some clarification this will become a useful law.
Seriously, street racing deaths don't even touch drunk driving deaths, I don't see what the big deal is, why spend all this damn money on freakin legislation that like nate said is enforced at the discretion of the cop at the time.
^^ Agreed. We won't feel it anywhere near as much as the larger areas, but it'll still be subject to abused by dickhead cops. Normally the po in North Bay are alright... OPP included. This ought to be interesting.
Note to Flo, Hab, hardkore and Nos ---- reading is a really good thing and should be done before posting about something you haven't researched.
Read the following and if you're still worried about a cop's discretion, I have more:
Bill C-65 - Wrote:Bill C-65 does not create a new offence. It should be noted that the proposed amendments apply only at the sentencing stage, that is, when an accused has been convicted of one of the offences referred to in the bill. There are four offences in question, under the Code: criminal negligence causing death,(2) criminal negligence causing bodily harm,(3) dangerous driving causing death(4) and dangerous driving causing bodily harm.(5) Where an offender has committed one of those four offences and was street racing at the time, the judge must then, in determining the appropriate sentence, consider the fact that this is an aggravating circumstance. In addition, the judge must prohibit the offender from driving a motor vehicle for a specified period of time.
Bottom line: the "street racing" provisions only come into play after you've been convicted of one of the above named offences - as I said before in another post - there is no such charge as "street racing" and therefore cops can't apply any discretion they don't already have.
Well, admittedly I didn't read TFA but in the light it was presented above... it's easy to see why we took the stance we did. The blurb makes it out to be that there's a whole new string of offences that we can be stopped and charged with.
Plus, no link to the actual bill. :)
ZTWsquared,Jun 15 2006, 12:38 PM Wrote:Note to Flo, Hab, hardkore and Nos ---- reading is a really good thing and should be done before posting about something you haven't researched.
Read the following and if you're still worried about a cop's discretion, I have more:
Bill C-65 - Wrote:Bill C-65 does not create a new offence. It should be noted that the proposed amendments apply only at the sentencing stage, that is, when an accused has been convicted of one of the offences referred to in the bill. There are four offences in question, under the Code: criminal negligence causing death,(2) criminal negligence causing bodily harm,(3) dangerous driving causing death(4) and dangerous driving causing bodily harm.(5) Where an offender has committed one of those four offences and was street racing at the time, the judge must then, in determining the appropriate sentence, consider the fact that this is an aggravating circumstance. In addition, the judge must prohibit the offender from driving a motor vehicle for a specified period of time.
Bottom line: the "street racing" provisions only come into play after you've been convicted of one of the above named offences - as I said before in another post - there is no such charge as "street racing" and therefore cops can't apply any discretion they don't already have.
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Ok, but that doesnt change anything from what I said. Its still up to the officers dicretion. The cop will go to court and will say his peice, the judge will use his testimony(as well as the current law, as you posted) for sentencing. If the cop is a douche and thinks you really dont deserve your car anymore, Im sure he can convince the judge I was street racing better than I can prove that I wasnt. ;)
Buh bye license
Buh bye car
Its just a giant waste of money to something that won't solve the problem, and the problem as i'm pointing out is such a small cause of unnessesary deaths compared to something like drunk driving, shootings, etc.
edit: This street racing topic is a pretty touchy thing, I'll note that hopefully nobody takes any comments personally.
Flofocus,Jun 15 2006, 01:02 PM Wrote:Ok, but that doesnt change anything from what I said. Its still up to the officers dicretion. The cop will go to court and will say his peice, the judge will use his testimony(as well as the current law, as you posted) for sentencing. If the cop is a douche and thinks you really dont deserve your car anymore, Im sure he can convince the judge I was street racing better than I can prove that I wasnt. ;)
Buh bye license
Buh bye car
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How does what you mention connect to the charges of causing death or bodily harm as outlined in ZTW's post?
Accidents happen, but you would obviously have to first hurt someone pretty badly with your car before you even have to worry about those charges.
If you killed someone with your car, you should be a lot more concerned about how your driving killed another human over how the cop sees it. Deaths by street racing are pretty cut and dry.
I don't think the death of any recent 'street racing deaths' could have been classified as innocent accidents causing death.
Yeah, it is touchy. Just so everyone knows, I dont support street racing at all, but I do enjoy letting my car lose once in a while (both on track and on the street, responsibly, and there is such thing). And what I do out on the country roads with freinds, going over the posted speed limit by no more than 20km/hr would be considered street racing. Even if the closest thing I could kill if I lost control is a cow.
Heres an article that was sent to one of the local Ottawa baord admin's
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Thanks to Cst. Parent for forwarding this to me.
Auto racing danger not a teenaged problem
Subhead: It's the "regular folks" who are causing the crashes
You fear the menacing street racing teens with shiny cars and powerful motors who wait for the light to turn red before disappearin in a cloud of howling burnt rubber.
The police say those kids should be more afraid of you.
The 30 road fatalities we average each year in Ottawa doesn't have anything to do with hotroding teens. Rather, it's the office worker weaving in and out of traffic trying to get the edge on every other driver or doing everything but paying attention to the road.
Constable Christian Parent, of the Ottawa Police Service, says that after spending years working with teens interested in racing he has come to the conclusion that the real threat on the roads is the average driver who drives too fast or doesn't pay attention.
"It just seems a little easier for the general public to point at a shiny car with chrome wheels rather than point the finger at themselves," said Parent.
"When you think about morning rush hour, you will see regular folks on their way into work doing 20 or 25 kilometres over the speed limit, on the cell phone, trying to rush through amber and red lights while tailgating and eating breakfast."
A few years ago Parent decided to study crash statistics to see if racing was a problem in the Ottawa area. He found that in the previous 10 years only one crash could be blamed largely on street racing. Three other fatalities involved racing but alcohol was considered the primary cause of those deaths.
Nevertheless, he saw a need to educate teens. He set up a program where teens would come to the Capitol City Speedway to see hot rods and listen to a sobering message designed to keep them from losing their licence, demerit points, vehicle, or worse, their life. As a result of running this program several times over the past few years fellow officers report a drop in racing incidents.
Even so, since Ottawa Police started collecting data on racing complaints last July, only 20 complaints have arisen and all but one were noise complaints. Just one person complained about being overtaken by racing cars while being at the center of a potentially danger situation.
So Parent now talks about how racers are created by parents whose example to their children involves speeding and other dangerous driving habits.
"In school zones, still today, you see mostly mothers driving their children to school in the 40 kilometre school zone doing 85 kilometres per hour. The people complaining about the teenagers are the people who create them by never following the rules themselves."
Although police generally believe they do not have a racing problem there are reports of cars revving up their engines at stoplights and racing when the light turns green. Police are also aware that racers in their twenties gather occasionally in mostly semi-rural areas on predominantly empty stretches of road to race.
"Don't get me wrong, its illegal. But these aren't the people in our fatalities," said Parent.
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We need more cops like this guy. He's always at car events supporting the 'bring it to the track' and posts once in a while on the local boards.
darkpuppet,Jun 15 2006, 01:42 PM Wrote:Flofocus,Jun 15 2006, 01:02 PM Wrote:Ok, but that doesnt change anything from what I said. Its still up to the officers dicretion. The cop will go to court and will say his peice, the judge will use his testimony(as well as the current law, as you posted) for sentencing. If the cop is a douche and thinks you really dont deserve your car anymore, Im sure he can convince the judge I was street racing better than I can prove that I wasnt. ;)
Buh bye license
Buh bye car
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How does what you mention connect to the charges of causing death or bodily harm as outlined in ZTW's post?
Accidents happen, but you would obviously have to first hurt someone pretty badly with your car before you even have to worry about those charges.
If you killed someone with your car, you should be a lot more concerned about how your driving killed another human over how the cop sees it. Deaths by street racing are pretty cut and dry.
I don't think the death of any recent 'street racing deaths' could have been classified as innocent accidents causing death.
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I wish I could explain myself better sometimes. I understand what he posted, and I understand that the judge will use the current law to do his magic...
What Im trying to say is its still up to the officer's discrection wether or not you were street racing. I could be stopped at trim Rd and the 417, waiting for the light to turn green, and when it does I accelarate to 100km/hr as the posted limit says....now lets say some fart can Honda is beside and trying to keep up....but all I'm doing is getting up to the posted speed limit....cops see 2 cars with loud exhaust aceclearting quiclky to 100-120km/hr...All Im doing is getting up to the safest speed, as the law states, but to this cop I could be "endangering the lives of the public" :rolleyes:
You guys must have some really nice cops around. lol. Its even marked in my "file" "Pottential street racer". Maybe thats why Im not happy about it, because I've already experienced what its like to be profiled. Yet I have a pretty clean driving record...11 years driving, 3 speeding tickets. Not perfect, but you guys know there's worse.
^^--- I never argued against that... that's always been a problem, and even cops don't use their discression to capture the majority of culprits.
I mean honestly, "only" 34 deaths since 1999. How many shootings have we had this year so far? Money should be put towards other sections of the law I think.
It's nice to see how it actually works though where it's the judge that makes the decision and not the cop who charges you for "street racing" however they'll still impound your ride.
Flofocus,Jun 15 2006, 01:02 PM Wrote:Ok, but that doesnt change anything from what I said. Its still up to the officers dicretion.[right][snapback]193259[/snapback][/right]
I think you're still missing/ignoring a couple of salient points:
1) For you to have any concerns with this legislation, we must assume you have already been convicted of one of four very serious offenses and you're already in big trouble; odds are a collision has been involved and we're not talking about simply accelerating quickly to the speed limit.
The cop has already given his evidence at trial and the normal rules of evidence have applied and you and your attorney have already failed to discount their evidence.
If the cop used any discretion in terms of charging you or his testimony against you, it's the same discretion he has now - the addition of street racing provisions for sentencing hasn't changed anything relative to a cop's discretion.
2) As a matter for sentencing, it will be a judges decision whether or not the street racing provisions should apply; and in making that determination the judge (not the cop) will look at Bill C-65 and its definitions of street racing for guidance (see text copied below). If the judge is doing his job he will assess all evidence (and not just the cops) in making his/her determination - and we will assume that you have had the opportunity to testify at your trial. If you don't think you were street racing and testified accordingly, the judge is required by law to consider your testimony.
If anything - once convicted you should be more concerned with the judge's discretion than with the cop's.
Bill C-65, Ove Wrote:A. Definition of âStreet Racingâ (Clause 1)
Clause 1 of the bill defines âstreet racingâ for the purposes of the Criminal Code.(41) The new definition, which will appear in section 2 of the Code, is stated in general terms, unlike, for example, the definition in the British Columbia statute.(42) This could be, among other things, because the definition in the bill relates to two offences â criminal negligence and dangerous driving â that are already described in the Code.(43) It can apply to a broad range of activities, and it relates both to organized street racing and to improvised events.
The bill uses the expression ârace with another motor vehicleâ (emphasis added), which implies that two or more vehicles participate in it. The proposed definition therefore does not seem to include a race against the clock, in which only one motor vehicle is involved.(44) As well, the expression âmotor vehicleâ is already defined in section 2 of the Code,(45) and it might mean that a race between, for example, motorcycles, snowmobiles or all-terrain vehicles could be characterized as a âstreet race.â On the other hand, under the definition in the bill, the âraceâ must take place in a public place.(46)
Bill C-65, Ove Wrote:(41) The definition reads: âstreet racingâ means operating a motor vehicle in a race with another motor vehicle on a street, road, highway or other public place.â
thanks for clarifying
do you mind if i post this on another forum?
Street racing as a term is mis-used. Furthermore, the classic over-use of the term is a rampant generalization of enthusiasts who pose zero additional threat to the general public over anyone else in a stock vehicle. They drive their vehciles responsibly, they behave in a courteous manner towards other drivers and pedestrians... and yet they're vilified because "vanilla" isn't good enough for them.
Believe me, not many folks are more of a mixed "bag of emotions" over street racing than I am. I did it in the past in as controlled an environment as we could make it, as far away from the public as possible... and I'm not ashamed of it, either. Like I've said before, this is just stumping for popular opinion, the actual offence and crime be damned.
Fast forward a few years later, and retards that were drunk and high blow a 4-way stop, clearly visible and properly signed, and they kill my aunt in the process.
The problem with the whole scenario: irregardless of the actual court case against those f***tards, they would have been labelled as street racing. I've never definitively heard if there was a second vehicle or if they were just lemmings without a cause, but the rest is all there. Speed, aggressive behaviour, disregard for the safety of themselves, their passengers and all those around them.
I've said it more than once before, and I'll say it again: the assholes who killed my aunt weren't street racers but the new laws / definitions would have you believe that they were participating in a street race.
The definition of a race is too vague and too easily misconstrued to mean just about anything. Two vehicles in single file passing a semi on a multi-lane, 400-series highway could be seen as "street racing", when all they're doing is avoiding a spray of rocks and dust from the truck's tires and empty bed. Is it plausible? Quite likely! But does the new law take that into account? No! Should an accident arise as a vehicle crosses in front of the truck and into the path of the two passing vehicles... a judge who wasn't there and is relying on relayed testimony gets to determine whether or not the action is street racing?
This whole bill is loaded. Nate, Matt and Kev are right. i agree with your points Ken, but the others are also quite right. That's a sad thing. :(
I gotta learn how to explain myself better.
It doesnt matter, Its written in my file. I'm already guilty, and I havent done anything yet. Have you ever gone to court? Doesnt matter what you say. I've only represented myself when I've fought tickets, so I'm sure a lawyer would do better, but if your going up there to the judge by yourself to explain that you were not..... lets say "Driving carelessly" (there, thats a charge for ya :P ) but you were accelarating to the posted speed limit and there just happened to be a fart can civic passing me....guess what....Judges tend to side with the cop. Back to my whole officers discretion...
Its a waste, theyre making it sound a lot more worse than it is with this bill, and now police will abuse it even more with all the attention harper is putting on it. Making his voters happy. :rolleyes: