[cornflakes]

I have been living in a brand new condo that was just finished in late 2004. We had upgraded to hardwood flooring but in the past 2 weeks the wooden floor tiles in 2 separate rooms have been rising inch by inch everyday.

The condo said i needed to call our builders so i called conservatory group (our builder) and they said we're out of warranty but I argued this was an installation defect or faulty installation on their part because hardwood floors after just 4 years shouldn't be rising all over the place. Our condo inspector even said that there was no water damage and it looked like it was installed too tight.

Where can I go to file a complaint and to make sure the builder fixes their mistake.

BTW Conservatory Group is a horrible builder and company - read up on all the reviews and IF YOU'RE LOOKING INTO BUYING A NEW CONDO OR HOME, STAY AWAY FROM CONSERVATORY GROUP. They ranked near the bottom in workmanship, quality, and customer care. I wish my parents would have known about this before they spend all that money.

[NefCanuck]

Have you checked out the Tarion New Home Warranty information?

Here is their website:

Tarion New Home warranty homepage

Since your past the builders warranty at two years you're into the Tarion seven year coverage which covers:

A major structural defect is defined in the The Ontario New Home Warranties Plan Act as:

Any defect in work or materials that results in the failure of a load-bearing part of the home’sstructure or materially and adversely affects its load-bearing function;

or

Any defect in work or materials that materially and adversely affects the use of the building as a home.

I'm not sure that what you're experiencing falls into the second category, but it doesn't hurt to try (you may need an engineers report to back up the assertion that the floor was installed too tightly)

NefCanuck

[Flofocus]

do something like this...

http://www.buildinghomes.ca/community/foru...p?t=9691&page=2

[ZTWsquared]

NefCanuck,May 7 2009, 02:11 PM Wrote:Have you checked out the Tarion New Home Warranty information?

Here is their website:

Tarion New Home warranty homepage

Since your past the builders warranty at two years you're into the Tarion seven year coverage which covers:

A major structural defect is defined in the The Ontario New Home Warranties Plan Act  as:

Any defect in work or materials that results in the failure of a load-bearing part of the home’sstructure or materially and adversely affects its load-bearing function;

or

Any defect in work or materials that materially and adversely affects the use of the building as a home.

I'm not sure that what you're experiencing falls into the second category, but it doesn't hurt to try (you may need an engineers report to back up the assertion that the floor was installed too tightly)

NefCanuck
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Oh the irony ... the Conservatory Group is listed as one of Tarion's finalists for the 2008 Tarion Excellence Awards in the high-rise category.

[dBlast]

Conservatory Group tends to cheap out on their standard offerings. I know that in their low-rise developments when you drive through a sub-division you can tell which houses are built by them even from the outside. In my neighbourhood where every other builder offered standard glass panes in the front door and window panes in their garage doors the Conservatory Group houses had solid front doors and garages.

When I was shopping for a home, I looked at one Conservatory model and walked right out. There fit and finishes were well below what everyone else was offering.

[Gabriel]

cornflakes,May 7 2009, 02:03 PM Wrote:I have been living in a brand new condo that was just finished in late 2004.  We had upgraded to hardwood flooring but in the past 2 weeks the wooden floor tiles in 2 separate rooms have been rising inch by inch everyday.

The condo said i needed to call our builders so i called conservatory group (our builder) and they said we're out of warranty but I argued this was an installation defect or faulty installation on their part because hardwood floors after just 4 years shouldn't be rising all over the place.  Our condo inspector even said that there was no water damage and it looked like it was installed too tight.

Where can I go to file a complaint and to make sure the builder fixes their mistake.

BTW Conservatory Group is a horrible builder and company - read up on all the reviews and IF YOU'RE LOOKING INTO BUYING A NEW CONDO OR HOME, STAY AWAY FROM CONSERVATORY GROUP.  They ranked near the bottom in workmanship, quality, and customer care.  I wish my parents would have known about this before they spend all that money.
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Is it a parquet (you mentioned wooden tiles) , or engineered floor? Where did it start to lift ? It just happens that I am an Hardwood floor installer and I've never heard of a floor to last 4 years and than , boom !!! just lift . After 4 years , I doubt , not impossible though , that someone would warranty such thing as a hwd floor . I understand your frustration , I am a homeowner too and I got a crack in the foundation wall and had water into my basement , when I just finished the basement :angry: . I made some phone calls and they said: "how old is your house?" , 5 years I said . Answer : "too late , your warranty is up" . My suggestion is to calm down and think rationally . I know the first think people is "stupid tradesmen , they did a s***ty job" . I will not tell you that we don't make mistakes , but you have no idea of the things we have to go through . Sometimes builders want us to lay flat hwd on uneven concrete floor (how ???), or glue it down when the concrete is not even cured properly (it won't stick right and then lift), because they have date lines and so on , I could write a book about it . About being too tight ...hmmm , I don't know , why did it take 4 years? Check for some leaks that might not show outside the wall , water could infiltrate under the floor , pull a tile out and see what's under . Who lives under you , what if they create so much moisture that travels through the concrete ceiling afecting your floor . Let's say it was too tight against the wall , not enough expansion space left around the walls , but materials in glue down installations don't expand almost at all ... pull some floor out and check underneath first

[cornflakes]

Thanks i appreciate the response. The first one is happening by the door to the balcony. Its about a 7 foot long split in the board that has now elevated and it opened on its own.

The 2nd one is happening in the bedroom...still early stages but is elevated but not split open yet.

The condo inspector checke for water damage and concluded it wasn't water damage...there is no leak. He believes it was installed too tight.

The funny thing is, the night before it was completely flat and then next morning it was completely elevated (but not split open). After that, it seems like millimeter by millimeter for almost 2 weeks now it has split open.

[cornflakes]

also at night when its really quiet....you could hear the floor creaking and cracking....i'm guessing that's the sound of the hardwood floor moving mm by mm.

My beef is that this is a brand new condo just built. We a few thousand to upgrade to hardwood floor and we didn't cause this damage either. Now after only 4 years the floor is already cracking up. When the one in my bedroom showed up just shortly after this one, it's got me thinking how many more boards will be like this over the next few months?

If it was only one, fine, we could eat the cost and pay....but this is clearly a defect in installation or error in workmanship that obviously needed a couple years to surface.

When a car is mfg'd and sold to the public but later they find out a faulty device was installed....they do recalls for like 20,000 vehicles or more.

Why shouldn't a home builder that has clearly faulted in construction not fix their mistake? If we spent 3-4 K to upgrade to hardwood floor and only 4 years later it cracks up like this and we gotta pay a few more hundred dollars to fix it all up, does that not sound right?

Not to mention, our builder is still constructing another condo right beside us and just finished phase 2 a few months ago.

[Gabriel]

cornflakes,May 7 2009, 07:01 PM Wrote:also at night when its really quiet....you could hear the floor creaking and cracking....i'm guessing that's the sound of the hardwood floor moving mm by mm.

My beef is that this is a brand new condo just built.  We a few thousand to upgrade to hardwood floor and we didn't cause this damage either.  Now after only 4 years the floor is already cracking up.  When the one in my bedroom showed up just shortly after this one, it's got me thinking how many more boards will be like this over the next few months?

If it was only one, fine, we could eat the cost and pay....but this is clearly a defect in installation or error in workmanship that obviously needed a couple years to surface. 

When a car is mfg'd and sold to the public but later they find out a faulty device was installed....they do recalls for like 20,000 vehicles or more.

Why shouldn't a home builder that has clearly faulted in construction not fix their mistake?  If we spent 3-4 K to upgrade to hardwood floor and only 4 years later it cracks up like this and we gotta pay a few more hundred dollars to fix it all up, does that not sound right?

Not to mention, our builder is still constructing another condo right beside us and just finished phase 2 a few months ago.
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Why is a 30000$ dollars car having 5years warranty and a builder gives you only one year warranty for a 400000$ ? BECAUSE THEY CAN .The law was made to favor them . Now what I see from your picture is a combo problem :
1. I thought this was a glue down installation since you said "wooden tiles ", I thought it was parquet which comes only glued , but no, this is a nail down install and I don't see any nails above the strips tongue ,only one dent from a nailer that seems to have ran out of ammo (nails) :) Along the whole strip there are no nails .This looks to me like 1/2" by 2and1/2" hardwood strips , possibly Satin Finish brand
2. Those strips are cupped , that shows the wood wanted to expand , but had nowhere to go . If the cupping is only 2-3 strips by the wall , that could be just too tight installation , but if you have that all over the floor ( cupping ) , that is excessive moisture in the house , alot of times generated by NOT using the A/C system during hot and humid summer time. I see this alot , but people say they are not bothered by the humidity , but trust me , hardwood is .

[Gabriel]

it looks to me like cupping throughout the room , that is definately excessive moisture , but I must admit also not seeing any nails , for which there is no excuse

[ZTWsquared]

Gabriel,May 7 2009, 07:12 PM Wrote:it looks to me like cupping throughout the room , that is definately excessive moisture , but I must admit also  not seeing any nails , for which there is no excuse
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It's a condo - so likely this install is over the concrete floor ...


You should get an expert opinion as to exactly what is happening - call a home inspector or something - but get it in writing what the cause is ... regardless of whether or not you're technically covered by anyone's warranty, you always have the option of suing - especially apropos considering the max amount is now considerably higher in small claims court.

Another thing to do is find out if anyone else in your condo is suffering from the same problem - there is always strength in numbers

[2001 ZTS]

"Hardwood floors" these days is an oxymoron.

The same hardwood floors have been in my house since 1936: 1" solid Oak.

nuff said and caveat emptor

[Gabriel]

ZTWsquared,May 7 2009, 09:37 PM Wrote:

Gabriel,May 7 2009, 07:12 PM Wrote:it looks to me like cupping throughout the room , that is definately excessive moisture , but I must admit also  not seeing any nails , for which there is no excuse
[right][snapback]286877[/snapback][/right]

It's a condo - so likely this install is over the concrete floor ...


You should get an expert opinion as to exactly what is happening - call a home inspector or something - but get it in writing what the cause is ... regardless of whether or not you're technically covered by anyone's warranty, you always have the option of suing - especially apropos considering the max amount is now considerably higher in small claims court.

Another thing to do is find out if anyone else in your condo is suffering from the same problem - there is always strength in numbers
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That looks like a SOLID hardwood floor , which shold NOT be installed with glue over concrete because of their degree of expansion .Only engineered , and parquet floors are suitable for this application .Condo doesn't automatically mean concrete subfloor . I've seen many cases where they laid plywood over concrete . Would be interesing to find this out so we don't play Holmes on homes :)

[NefCanuck]

2001 ZTS,May 7 2009, 08:41 PM Wrote:"Hardwood floors" these days is an oxymoron.

The same hardwood floors have been in my house since 1936: 1" solid Oak.

nuff said and caveat emptor
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Yet another reason I love the carpet in my condo and will replace like for like when the time comes (not to mention the fact that carpet acts as a bit of a cushion if I take a tumble, an important consideration in my case)

NefCanuck

[meford4u]

Do you have a humistat in the apt.? Probably not.

As far as any case for reinbursement goes.............case closed.

Wood floors need to have the humidity controlled. No humidistat/no warranty/no $$$$.

[ANTHONYD]

2001 ZTS,May 7 2009, 09:41 PM Wrote:"Hardwood floors" these days is an oxymoron.

The same hardwood floors have been in my house since 1936: 1" solid Oak.

nuff said and caveat emptor
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I was actually going to mention the same thing.
My buddies place has beautiful hardwood floors that are well over a 100 years old. LOL.

[cornflakes]

Yes, i have noticed that quality in the past was always much better than quality today. Our brand new condo feels cheap and the hardwood floor aint the only problem this condo has. I've been in older apartments that feel like a hotel.

My parents are going to have someone take a look at it but it looks like we're going to have to pay out of our own pockets to repair this. I don't understand half the things u guys just said lol...i need bob villa over here to explain.