[NOS2Go4Me]

I just had to comment on this RIDICULOUS new law. Agree with me or hate me, the tax dollars really should be going into drunk driving crackdowns and enforcement, seatbelt violation detection (especially for parents with young children) and hell... even "street racing" where punks in Mommy and Daddy's cars tear down known heatscore roads, attracting more attention to tuners who just want to be different.


Link to story

Quote:  Those of us who have learnt to become skillful drivers do NOT place attention on a cell phone over giving attention to the needs of driving a vehicle. I will routinely tell my caller/callee to "hang on a sec" as I find that I need to devote 100% of my attention to driving for a little bit. Then, as traffic and conditions even out, I can resume my conversation. Also, is checking your mirrors constantly that hard to do, folks? If I can do it while holding down a conversation, surely you can do it just to drive a little safer.

What bothers me is that we'll waste the time and tax dollars to put this bill into place and then harass motorists that happen to be holding their heads while verbally lamenting this ridiculous new law while Joe Sixpack next to him is 6 beers to the wind or worse, has been convicted 3 times already and is about to play Russian Roulette with fate and a roadway full of innocent people. Great stuff.

I'm sure the families of victims killed by repeat drunk driving offenders will appreciate the removal of people from the road who not only were sober and very likely to drive responsibly, they were also one of the last lines of defence in reporting drunk drivers to the police.

[Canadian ST]

Well I think there are way to many people on the road who use phones, There isn't much of a differance between someone on a phone or someone drunk. How many times have you been stuck behind somebody at a green light, or cut off because some jack ass is using a phone.

[Oscar The Grouch]

Make these mandatory in vehicles and you won't need a bill.

[GFXjamie]

i have to say, i think the bill is stupid. now i doubt u can all say you have never been guilty of using your cell while driving unless ofcourse you dont have one. there are some situations where it is needed. i dont think when ur phone rings and ur in the fast lane your going to dart across the highway to be able to accept the call or call back, thats just non sense and its going to make our roads even worst! i personally use my phone a lot on the road, i am an on the road technical service rep so in between service calls im usually being called to add to my schedule for the day and co-ordinate other jobs. it is a necessary part of my job and i dont have time to just pull over and take the calls as it would waste a lot of my time and productivity goes out the window. now would this law apply to police officers and their computers in the car/radios/anything else used to screw us over?

[SL8RZZX3]

Sorry but i agree with the bill and want to see it passed!

Nothing worse to me than getting stuck behind some idiot not doing the speed limit and chatting away on their phone. it seems like as soon as they get it up to their ear the gas pedal doesn't work any more! :rolleyes: I purposely get in front of them and slam on my brakes!

And since i have just installed Bluetooth decks in my folks and my own car i don't have to worry about the stupid law if it does come into effect

[NefCanuck]

Count me as someone who wants to see this bill implemented as well. I've seen far too many examples of people driving while having the damn phone welded to their heads and giving no heed to what's going on around them.

The worst offender was a woman yakking on a phone and nearly driving into a lane closed for construction until she violently wrenched the wheel and nearly hit the rear of the car in the free lane as she was trying to avoidgoing into the construction area.

NefCanuck

[cornflakes]

our civil liberties slowly being taken away inch by inch until before u know it we will be living under a police state. it's gonna happen folks.....we give up more of our freedom for security (that's the only way to justify giving up another piece of our freedom).

Soon you won't be able to do anything without a law for it. We'll be under constant sureveillance and if you don't agree with it, you'll be jailed. ie. Hate Speech law.

[ZTWsquared]

cornflakes,Oct 28 2008, 11:00 PM Wrote:our civil liberties slowly being taken away inch by inch until before u know it we will be living under a police state.  it's gonna happen folks.....we give up more of our freedom for security (that's the only way to justify giving up another piece of our freedom).

Soon you won't be able to do anything without a law for it.  We'll be under constant sureveillance and if you don't agree with it, you'll be jailed.  ie. Hate Speech law.
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Although I'm sympathetic to this ideal, the fact is people who are impaired by the distraction of their cell phone pose a danger to more than just themselves ... it's a shame that we have to legislate good sense, but that's the way it is.

Having said that ... I pay attention to the way police officers drive because it is a pet peeve of mine (I've written dozens of letters over the years to police chiefs about this) ... and I've notice lately that a lot of officers don't use their turn signals ... and the reason is that their one hand is full of cell phone ... I hope that this bill doesn't exempt them for some reason.

[OAC_Sparky]

Well, whiel the "intent" of the law is there, the execution is what is lacking. What they need to do is crack down on those causing accidents while on the phone, not ban them entirely.

IF you have a handsfree set in your car it is no worse than talking to someone sitting in the passenger seat. What next? All passengers have to sit in the back seat behind a plexiglass barracade?

I drive the QEW every day and I see the f***in idiots, trust me. Reading books and driving. I've seen people that can't see out the front windshield because they're foldin a map. Eating cereal out of a bowl.

How many people here have video screens in their cars? How many of you HAVE THE PARKING BRAKE LOCKOUT DEFEATED? How many of you cruise down the road with your stereo cranked? Can you hear that fire truck or ambulance?

Face it. We all do s*** that we probably shouldn't do, What we need is to make people accountable for their actions, not remove the freedoms for those that can act responsibly.

And cops? They don't want to have to enforce this. A close personal friend of mine is a cop, she says they're the worse offenders; a cell, a pager, talking on the radio while monitoring another and typing on their computer rushing to a call.

[ZTWsquared]

OAC_Sparky,Oct 29 2008, 06:03 AM Wrote:Well, whiel the "intent" of the law is there, the execution is what is lacking. What they need to do is crack down on those causing accidents while on the phone, not ban them entirely.
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I hear ya ... but unlike alcohol or drugs there's no real way after the fact, of proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that someone involved in a collission was using a cell-phone - unfortunately eye-witness accounts are really unreliable.

If the key is prevention, as opposed to assigning blame after an accident, then clearly education has failed ... and so what's left?

[NOS2Go4Me]

OAC_Sparky,Oct 29 2008, 06:03 AM Wrote:Face it. We all do s*** that we probably shouldn't do, What we need is to make people accountable for their actions, not remove the freedoms for those that can act responsibly.

And cops? They don't want to have to enforce this. A close personal friend of mine is a cop, she says they're the worse offenders; a cell, a pager, talking on the radio while monitoring another and typing on their computer rushing to a call.
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Thanks Sparky, I'm glad you and a few others here get it - Cornflakes, etc. :)

It's about removing the freedoms of all because of the ineptitude of, well more than a few but then isn't that what having laws and rules is all about?

Example: as I was literally pulling into town last Saturday afternoon, bringing my grandmother up for a week's vacation / respite from Toronto :P , we were stopped on NB's "bypass" at Northgate Mall. We had seen a guy through a guardrail (rolled) at the last ramp, but he seemed to be out and fine and there were already 5-6 cars stopped to assist.

As I cursed for not having the OPP call centre number in the phone, we saw two fire trucks racing off to the scene. I knew then that the OPP were on their way. Just then, a newly-painted OPP Yukon roared up to the intersection, lights and sirens going. The guys blocking him moved over, he approached in clear view of cross-flow traffic and STILL some idiot in a half-ton nearly t-boned him. No phone, no stereo that I could hear - just a moron and his wife (g/f?) going to the mall. After the officer removed his heart from his throat, he floored it and took off, the truck being pretty much sideways for 30 ft or so at least.

Lessons of the story:

- People in old half-tons shouldn't try to race around tight on-ramps.
- I am programming the OPP dispatch centre number in my cell as I type this
- Morons drive anything and do anything (nothing?) behind the wheel. That's with or without food, beer, cellphone or any other potential distractant.
- Should OPP really drive TFATF-style on slick roads in traffic like that? He was probably something pissed, but still.

EDIT - sorry about blowing my own horn here (no pun intended), but a few years ago we were all required to take a driving assessment for insurance purposes here at work (those of us that drive company vehicles, even occassionally). I've gotta say, I ended up with a great review and near top marks for the company - being able to adapt to surroundings, prioritizing attention while driving, etc. I know I'm one fish in a big sea, but we all stand up for what we believe in and we all want to protect what we have. That's why I feel as I do - don't punish me for doing something that I haven't done because there are a bunch of evolutionary throwbacks running around out there that are lucky to make it home each night! Take away THEIR licenses. Fine THEM for THEIR driving habits. I'll keep my flawless insurance record and just go about my business.

[Scorcher000]

Ha cops and cell phone lol, that reminds me. I was sitting at a light the other week just by my house and I was on the phone with my gf when I saw a cop pull up beside me, thought nothing of it, then I here a wop wop :huh: :unsure: . Looked over and hes like pointing down with the finger to the cell phone. So I was like ok officer no problem (you dick, under my breath) :rolleyes:. Then a second went by and I look over again and here he is with his cell in his ear and typing of the computer too. Well let me tell you, I was like F this, HOOOOOOOOOOOOONK HONK. :D I pointed down to the cell and he looked at me and smilled and run the red and then went off and parked at the all girls cathlic school behinde my house. Just a power trip. <_<

[NefCanuck]

ZTWsquared,Oct 29 2008, 05:47 AM Wrote:I hear ya ... but unlike alcohol or drugs there's no real way after the fact, of proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that someone involved in a collission was using a cell-phone - unfortunately eye-witness accounts are really unreliable.
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Not quite true, at least for the cell phones, it's always possible to subpeona the usage records of the alleged offender.

If the records show the phone was in use at the time of the collision and that it can be proven that the phone was in fact in the car at the time of the collision and that the alleged offender was the only person in the car? That's as close to a slam dunk in law that you'd ever get.

Of course the above scenario is the "perfect storm" nothing says that it would play out that way making things that much murkier.

NefCanuck

[Flofocus]

Its about time we did this, but I agree its sad we even need to make a law about it. People are dumb, what can you do?

Now we just need mandatory winter tires.

[NOS2Go4Me]

Flofocus,Oct 29 2008, 11:42 AM Wrote:Now we just need mandatory winter tires.
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It's not my day for agreeing with you, bud. :P

Mandatory winter tires are one of the worst things I've ever heard about. I'm just waiting for the flurry (pun intended) of lawsuits that will come when people who get into loss-of-control accidents have their "government-mandated" snow tires on.

It's a cash grab for the tire retailers / wholesalers, the tire manufacturers and the government (when they fine you for not having snow tires).

Anyone can drive in any climate with M+S-rated all-season rubber if they drive with a brain in their head. It's nice to have seasonal rubber, but a lot of folks can't afford two sets of tires and rims for each vehicle.

Once again, governments replace common sense and the removal of drivers who otherwise just generate extra revenue by creating laws that cause us all un-necessary expense.

[Flofocus]

Its ok Adam, I've met your type for the winter tire thing, and I've invited them to prove me wrong. Funny thing is, they never have. ;)

Last year i got into an argument with a guy like you, he was saying he can stop, corner just as good as anybody in the snow with his all seaons. We went out to empty parking lot, and he was proved wrong pretty quickly, his attitude towards winter tires changed that day big time.

Same with my father in law, he was always saying that all seasons were just fine for winter. He tried them one year and swears by winter tires now. Actually wont let his younger daughter out with the car with all seasons, only the one with snows on it.

Mandatory winter tires can and has saved lives. Nothing you will
say will change my opinion. All season in winter = hockey pucks. Easy as that.

[GFXjamie]

i would argue this point, but hes right lol winter tires are far better for driving in the winter. altho the down fall of it is ....(drumroll)... there are a lot of people who put winter tires on their car and then think they can do what ever they want and drive like complete @$$ hats because they have winter tires and are invincible. thats the problem that i see is the mind state some people get into. i have driven in the winter with both all seaons and even summer tires! and i have never got stuck once. there has been only one time where i have had any problem and that was when i was slowing down and hit a huge patch of ice, spun and straightened out and continued on my way. they are great and add the grea deal of safety to your drive, but you still need to drive cautiously

[OAC_Sparky]

GFXjamie,Oct 29 2008, 06:13 PM Wrote:i would argue this point, but hes right lol winter tires are far better for driving in the winter. altho the down fall of it is ....(drumroll)... there are a lot of people who put winter tires on their car and then think they can do what ever they want and drive like complete @$$ hats because they have winter tires and are invincible. thats the problem that i see is the mind state some people get into. i have driven in the winter with both all seaons and even summer tires! and i have never got stuck once. there has been only one time where i have had any problem and that was when i was slowing down and hit a huge patch of ice, spun and straightened out and continued on my way. they are great and add the grea deal of safety to your drive, but you still need to drive cautiously
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I agree 100%. I have snows for all my vehicles except my truck (an FX4 4x4 that has aggressive M+S already) and I have to admit that I drive a little more aggressively than I would if I just had all-seasons.

Ever see a 4x4 in the ditch in a snowstorm? All those people push their limits because they're in a 4x4. You can't engineer or legislate in common sense.

[Flofocus]

GFXjamie,Oct 29 2008, 06:13 PM Wrote:i would argue this point, but hes right lol winter tires are far better for driving in the winter. altho the down fall of it is ....(drumroll)... there are a lot of people who put winter tires on their car and then think they can do what ever they want and drive like complete @$$ hats because they have winter tires and are invincible. thats the problem that i see is the mind state some people get into. i have driven in the winter with both all seaons and even summer tires! and i have never got stuck once. there has been only one time where i have had any problem and that was when i was slowing down and hit a huge patch of ice, spun and straightened out and continued on my way. they are great and add the grea deal of safety to your drive, but you still need to drive cautiously
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Your completely right, but then theres the other side of things also. People that think they can just adjust their driving habits with all seasons, and they will be fine. Sure - they're smart, and safe, but theyre also the jerk on the queensway slowing down traffic because they need to 'adjust' their driving habits to conform to the conditions. Just get the tires that will give you the appropriate traction, jesus!

We all know tires are one of the most important mods in the summer when it comes to traction, Im not sure why people have such a hard time grasping the winter tire concept. :rolleyes: Same s***, different season.

I dont use all seasons at all. Winter time = winter tires. Summer time = performance tires.

All seaons is a budget tire for people who cant afford the proper combo. Even then I would argue that it works out to the same cost if you get 2 full sets.

[NOS2Go4Me]

Flofocus,Oct 30 2008, 08:10 AM Wrote:Sure - they're smart, and safe, but theyre also the jerk on the queensway slowing down traffic because they need to 'adjust' their driving habits to conform to the conditions.  Just get the tires that will give you the appropriate traction, jesus!
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Actually, that's the point I was going to make yesterday. What speed IS safe in the winter? The dry/wet summer speed limit? What about all the ice and snow that builds up on your car in places you can't see that affects its handling and braking? Will winter tires remove that handicap? Will winter tires be mandated for heavy trucks? What about their speeds? (and why else do you think record numbers of them end up in the ditch each year)

Just because a s***load of people run around in a rat race each day and refuse to leave early to allow themselves extra travel time - that's not a reason to mandate snow tires. Your (and I don't mean you, specifically, Nate) inability to get up in the morning doesn't require me to spend extra cash on tires. Your "need for speed" in inclement weather disturbs me. I bet a lot of the folks who buy snow tires so they can drive faster hardly slow down during rainstorms. They're the idiots that eventually end up sucking someone else's rear bumper. If not for the victims in front of them, I'd say good riddance.

Again, if the government-rated mud and snow stampings have been good enough for us so far, year after year - why is it suddenly unacceptable now? Have we been lied to all this time or is it just a cash grab?

Sorry Nate, but you can say what you will - just because some people place too much importance on their need for speed and their own elevated sense of importance, it doesn't mean we should all kowtow to them and buy snow tires. If people weren't bombing around at the posted speed limit or worse on snow-covered and ice-covered roads, stopping and starting wouldn't be an issue. But everyone needs to be there NOW and everyone's in a rush. Everyone can kiss my ass. :P :angry:

People need to learn how to drive in inclement weatehr, first of all. I really think the government is going to use the mandate for snow tires as a crutch, to see if they can lower the number of collisions and deaths that occur each year. A lot of people are flat-out MORONS and shouldn't be driving at all - let alone in the winter.

Welcome to Canada (and I don't care if you were born here or not) - learn to drive properly in all 4 seasons or get off the road! Or, get out!