Your TP relative is reading 20%, I would pickup a new TPS(throttle position sensor) from ford and swap that, its a cheap part that fails easily. Do a rescan. Your TP Relative should be close to 0. Unless your scan tool is telling you something different than the xcal does.
Pinging is not good.
Quote:What does the pinging mean sir?
Ping is the sound you hear at the repair shop. :D
Mason,Jun 13 2007, 10:09 AM Wrote:Quote:What does the pinging mean sir?
Ping is the sound you hear at the repair shop. :D
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No that's
$cha-ching$ :lol:
NefCanuck
Awww, c-mon guys. I know it USED to mean the timing was too far retarded on older non-computerized-do-it-the-old-way vehicles, but on a Focus with a management system, I assume the puter takes care of it, so....
What can pinging mean in this case?
Scorpion,Jun 13 2007, 06:05 PM Wrote:Awww, c-mon guys. I know it USED to mean the timing was too far retarded on older non-computerized-do-it-the-old-way vehicles, but on a Focus with a management system, I assume the puter takes care of it, so....
What can pinging mean in this case?
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Ah no, even with a computer controlling the works, it
is possible to get pinging or detonation...
Detonation is caused by either gas whose octane rating is too low for the engine (and which in this case the computer can't retard the timing far enough back to compensate for) or the engine computer itself is whack and isn't doing its job (A problem I had on an '85 K-car years ago, the engine computer was pooched and so the car wouldn't start w/o a boost and deiseled like crazy for up to a minute after shutdown :ph34r:)
NefCanuck
It can possibly be cheaper to swap the engine in some cases. I know a fella who did it with a wrecker engine. Kept everything usable off his buggered one and held onto it for parts. This is like worst case kinda talk though.
It was a sunfire mind you but I dont see it being any different for a focus.
Just a quick thought .... Mass Air FLow sensor. Check the elements for dirt contamination, they can be cleaned with an intake cleaning chemical (spray type). If you have a vacuum gauge and a "T" fitting watch the needle as it is running and see if it is fluctuating (issue) or holding steady (better).
good luck
guys i have some n00b questions
is it normal for the short term fuel trim and timing advance to change while the car is idling?
early in the file the short term trim is negative % (trying to lean out the motor?) and timing advance is 28deg
later in the file the short term trim is slightly positive, and the timing advance is down to 16deg
is that just how cars operate when they are in closed loop?
could that negative short term trim and more timing advance be contributing to the detonation he experience in 4th gear at low rpm?
naz,Jun 14 2007, 07:57 PM Wrote:guys i have some n00b questions
is it normal for the short term fuel trim and timing advance to change while the car is idling?
early in the file the short term trim is negative % (trying to lean out the motor?) and timing advance is 28deg
later in the file the short term trim is slightly positive, and the timing advance is down to 16deg
is that just how cars operate when they are in closed loop?
could that negative short term trim and more timing advance be contributing to the detonation he experience in 4th gear at low rpm?
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I dont think so. The computer would correct if it was getting det.
OR at least toss you an engine light...
Though it is possible.
How many K on the car?
could it be a crack in an intake runner? one cylinder is geting extra air and detonating and missing?
Yes, absolute progress on the mis-fire! 2 tanks of fuel coupled with 2 bottles of injector cleaner, coupled with the 200Km run, seems to have cured it. The CEL even went off over the weekend. So it seems that is all good.
Now, as for the pinging/detonation (actually, isn't it post detonation?), still the same. However, I am going to try to check out your advices above, and look into it a bit more.
One question...could the timing belt have slipped one tooth? Is that possible, and it's just too far retarded to cope? Maybe I'm too far retarded in thinking it...lol, but it's just a thought...don;t know if it's even possible to run if it slipped once.
I'm going to record another session this wee-end coming (no-time last w/e), and maybe you guys can look again, see if there are any differences.
Thanks for alllll your ideas and help so far...I really appreciate it.
S.
Nope. Timing slip will give your a super bad run and engine light.
You should use some lucas Injector cleaner. Its all I use. Best stuff around.
Also next oil change get a can of Wynn's. Good for sticky valves and such.
I can guess by the tone of the comments that you would like to stay away from the dealership if possible? You have given it quite a good run but you may have to take it to the 'stealership'. They have the scan tools that are just a bit better than anything off the shelf. Try to get a little bit of a inside edge and see if you can talk to the tech who is checking out your car. "They all can't be jerks". Ask him of his opinion of what the car can and can't do, and explain to him what you want the car to do! See if he is willing to offer recommendations, pay him for his time for the diag' and you head home to do the repair.
Hope you find a good tech out there, who can point you in the right direction you've been everywhere else.
NefCanuck,Jun 13 2007, 07:15 PM Wrote:Detonation is caused by either gas whose octane rating is too low for the engine (and which in this case the computer can't retard the timing far enough back to compensate for) or the engine computer itself is whack and isn't doing its job (A problem I had on an '85 K-car years ago, the engine computer was pooched and so the car wouldn't start w/o a boost and deiseled like crazy for up to a minute after shutdown :ph34r:)[right][snapback]241309[/snapback][/right]
Detonation can also be caused by running too lean, if the MAF sensor is dirty (and reports less airflow than actual) or the TPS is defective (showing a throttle position less than what it actually is).
Both good points. Inspecting the intake tube / MAF housing is super-easy and takes minutes. A TPS takes a tad longer. I'd give both a shot - clean em up and see what happens.
Excellent...I'll look at it this week-end as well (along with the brakes now...sigh). I have a manual, and the TPS doesn't seem too hard to remove (HA, famous last words!).
I'll keep you informed!
Thanks guys.
And Zx5chris, I will take it to dealer or my mechanic if I can't figure it out, but that is the whole idea of forums, no? I'll fix it myself with the help of the people here, such as yourself, Mo, Relridge, Anthony, NOS, Sparky, Mason, Nef, Zed, Hardkore, and even Naz, with his noob questions (tho they seemed very pertinent to me :lol: ). But it's a last resort. I've saved a ton of money so far, just doing what I HAVE done :)
I hope you can chase this 'gremlin' and tell us all about the adventures of the crappy misfire for #1.... Just a Quick thought, I think you are Running Bosch plugs, if i can remember that far back. Take a look at the center electrode and see if it is receeding (I need my spell check). I've seen some Bosch plugs that are pretty weak. If they have that 'pin' size electrode, try a new set of plugs.
:wacko:
is the detonation sound like marbles in a tin can or like marbles in a can of water?
zx5chris,Jun 20 2007, 12:50 AM Wrote:I hope you can chase this 'gremlin' and tell us all about the adventures of the crappy misfire for #1.... Just a Quick thought, I think you are Running Bosch plugs, if i can remember that far back. Take a look at the center electrode and see if it is receeding (I need my spell check). I've seen some Bosch plugs that are pretty weak. If they have that 'pin' size electrode, try a new set of plugs.
:wacko:
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No, mis-fire is 'cured', CEL went out, seems to run fine. Just the detonation giving trouble ATM. And I took the Bosch plugs out after someone mentioned plug length might be an issue. Using NGK right now.
ZED_not_zee,Jun 20 2007, 01:02 AM Wrote:is the detonation sound like marbles in a tin can or like marbles in a can of water?
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Hmmm....I'll try to listen...I know the sort of sound you mean...is it more of a higher pithed 'ting' than a lower pitch one.
I'll let you know.