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I use to road rally my corrolla wiht deep dish BBS wheels and a 10 mill streach.....this setup gave the car a much quicker turn in and the ability to get oversteer on command....
Having said that, all the same judgment calls have to be made when setting this up....A really low propfile tire ...say a 40 series prolly should not be streached at all ...we used 50 series and experimented up to a 15 mil. stretch.....never once did it cause any danger to myself or anyone else for that matter....the original purpose for tire streching was to give yet another posibility of how to cheaply and quickly change the handling characteristics of your car....Yuo have to remember when this originally started there was not the massive amounts of suspension and handling equipment available through the after market . We made use of as many of these little tricks as possible....and yes tire streaching had a very important place in amatuer racing.....Now we just change the hiegth and damping rates of our adjustable coilovers....turn in the adjustable sway bar and .......turn in and oversteer are there on command....
truthfully....I think it is cool on a tire with a bigger side wall....
CD silver 03zx5,wings west type w, hella projectors,painted SVt upper grill, Grillcraft lower grill,clear corners,clear upper brake light, team dynamic 15 spoke x 17" rims,Kumho 712's 215/40,pacesetter header,magnaflow cat back,FC 65mm tb,RactiveCAI,MSD dis2 ignition,Tayler Vertex wires,SHM udp,Ractive upper strut tower brace,FK hitec suspension with springs/dampers-35/40 drop,Eibach front/rear anti sway bars,Steeda short throw shifter,Momo race air leather knob and e-brake handle,custom fiberglass upper dash with AC el -glow oil pressure/volt gauges,el-glow face gauges
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03-17-2005, 11:18 AM
(This post was last modified: 03-17-2005, 11:22 AM by 2001 ZTS.)
dad,Mar 17 2005, 01:05 AM Wrote:I use to road rally my corrolla wiht deep dish BBS wheels and a 10 mill streach.....this setup gave the car a much quicker turn in and the ability to get oversteer on command....
Having said that, all the same judgment calls have to be made when setting this up....A really low propfile tire ...say a 40 series prolly should not be streached at all ...we used 50 series and experimented up to a 15 mil. stretch.....never once did it cause any danger to myself or anyone else for that matter....the original purpose for tire streching was to give yet another posibility of how to cheaply and quickly change the handling characteristics of your car....Yuo have to remember when this originally started there was not the massive amounts of suspension and handling equipment available through the after market . We made use of as many of these little tricks as possible....and yes tire streaching had a very important place in amatuer racing.....Now we just change the hiegth and damping rates of our adjustable coilovers....turn in the adjustable sway bar and .......turn in and oversteer are there on command....
truthfully....I think it is cool on a tire with a bigger side wall....
[right][snapback]94109[/snapback][/right]
Now that is what I call an ANSWER and I'm not ashamed to admit to learning something from it. Very interesting. I also note the stretches you used where not as "extreme" as what we are seeing.
EDIT: Back in the day every car I remember had a wee bit or zero stretch. The typical bulge common these days is a result of radial tire technology isn't it?
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03-17-2005, 11:21 AM
(This post was last modified: 03-17-2005, 11:28 AM by dad.)
^^^^^^
ya kinda one of those old school things turned suido bling.....
radiial tires changed everything when we were racing.....actually forced us to change the way we set our cars up cause we were forced to use a specific type to keep a level playing field....the original "potanza's" if memory serves.....By forcing us to go to like ttires it actually made some people less competitive because there cars may not have had nearly so many racing equipment options.....the tire setup was a huge part of the car setup...
It still is but if you are told to use the same tire as your competetor it really leaves very little cheap setup changes you could make to your car.....
CD silver 03zx5,wings west type w, hella projectors,painted SVt upper grill, Grillcraft lower grill,clear corners,clear upper brake light, team dynamic 15 spoke x 17" rims,Kumho 712's 215/40,pacesetter header,magnaflow cat back,FC 65mm tb,RactiveCAI,MSD dis2 ignition,Tayler Vertex wires,SHM udp,Ractive upper strut tower brace,FK hitec suspension with springs/dampers-35/40 drop,Eibach front/rear anti sway bars,Steeda short throw shifter,Momo race air leather knob and e-brake handle,custom fiberglass upper dash with AC el -glow oil pressure/volt gauges,el-glow face gauges
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hahahaahaha DAD is showig his age :P
by the looks of you today I say you have a good few minutes left how were the fumes of that high end oil you were using :lol:
[center]TEAM PITA⢠Don't settle for a wannabe, only accept the real deal.[/center]
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hahahahaha....go to hamilton elevator boy....
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if it's part of an overall euro style, the strech look can look killer with the right rims. however those rims with that amount of strech on THAT focus does not match up at all. the main idea behind the strech look was to fit the largest wheels possible without rubbing the fenders. try running a 8.5" wheel with the correct tire and see how much it rubs. the 2 silver focus' in that thread on FJ show what the style looks like when done propperly.
this style has been around for years and will not go away. it's common on EVERY european car and has been proven to be safe time and time again. TUV authorizes this style to be safe for the roads and anything TUV approved is about 10x safer than DOT or CSA. my friends dad has a 993TT with HUGE Fikse wheels rocking the strech style. he even tracks and drags his 993 with the tires like that, never had a problem with blow-outs or the bead coming off the rim. i have had his car upto 230kph with no issues even under heavy cornering there was no noticable tire squirm or sidewall flex any different than a "normal" tire-to-rim sizing.
it's not unsafe, it may look stupid on Ivans car but it's not unsafe.
it does not protect the rim from curb damage, or deep potholes for that matter. but then again, i just bent the rims on my Audi Allroad after running over a rock... 225/50/17s and they didn't protect the rims either. i have bent numerous rims with everything from 205/40s to 225/45s on my cars over the years.
how is this style "unsafe" or "less safe" than any other style? and please, try and back up your reasons with facts and not opinions.
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ZX3TUNING,Mar 18 2005, 09:21 AM Wrote:how is this style "unsafe" or "less safe" than any other style? and please, try and back up your reasons with facts and not opinions.
[right][snapback]94425[/snapback][/right]
I leave that up to people more knowledgable than you or I, the manufacturers. They have recomended wheel sizes for every tire size they make and there is obviously a reason for such a recomendation or it wouldn't exist at all.
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2001 ZTS,Mar 18 2005, 08:47 AM Wrote:ZX3TUNING,Mar 18 2005, 09:21 AM Wrote:how is this style "unsafe" or "less safe" than any other style? and please, try and back up your reasons with facts and not opinions.
[right][snapback]94425[/snapback][/right]
I leave that up to people more knowledgable than you or I, the manufacturers. They have recomended wheel sizes for every tire size they make and there is obviously a reason for such a recomendation or it wouldn't exist at all.
[right][snapback]94436[/snapback][/right]
Bingo.
There is crdibility in the manufacturers of the tires... not you buddy's dad's friend's set up.
And thanks Dad for the great answer to my question.
Does the size of the area of tire making contact with the road play an important part in oversteer?
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A curb would not be your friend...
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Nor an on ramp at any given speed.
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ANTHONYD,Mar 18 2005, 08:55 AM Wrote:2001 ZTS,Mar 18 2005, 08:47 AM Wrote:ZX3TUNING,Mar 18 2005, 09:21 AM Wrote:how is this style "unsafe" or "less safe" than any other style? and please, try and back up your reasons with facts and not opinions.
[right][snapback]94425[/snapback][/right]
I leave that up to people more knowledgable than you or I, the manufacturers. They have recomended wheel sizes for every tire size they make and there is obviously a reason for such a recomendation or it wouldn't exist at all.
[right][snapback]94436[/snapback][/right]
Bingo.
There is crdibility in the manufacturers of the tires... not you buddy's dad's friend's set up.
And thanks Dad for the great answer to my question.
Does the size of the area of tire making contact with the road play an important part in oversteer?
[right][snapback]94459[/snapback][/right]
well....I dont think it is that simple....
when we were setting up for a road style rally that required alot of hairpin turns or switch backs we found it usefull to have some stretch as this would increase the ability to quickly swing the rear end of the car around....Now....the thing here is that we were generally using a 50 series tire which as you know is a fairly tall tire , when stretched 10-15 mill it would exibit alot less sidewall roll ....we simply did not have available a 40 series tire, or the rims for them back then....So to hopefully answer your question the area of tire contact was not as big of a concern as was the tire's ability to be stiff walled during heavy cornering, streaching helped us here. Now adays , the tire technology ,rim technology, and shear availabilty of what was once concidered full blown "sponser " only equipment has all but made this practice a thing of the past as an instrument to improve or manipulate handling...
Remember that this was back in the early to mid 80's....rear drive Corrolla's, Lancia spiders, triumph, old Z cars, etc were the amatuer cars of the day....much has changed in 20 or more years. As a side note that I find particularly interesting the Kumho 712's I have on the Focus, a resonable tire but not great, are so unbelievably better than any tire we could have got our hands on back then....so it is all a matter of perspective...
Having said all that, todays practice of streaching tires can have some benifits, but ,givin the many other better ways available for an amatuer racer to achieve what he needs from his car it seems little more than a style thing...and if done not to access I think is not only safe ...kinda looks cool , on certain cars....
oh and thanks for the trip down memory lane guys
CD silver 03zx5,wings west type w, hella projectors,painted SVt upper grill, Grillcraft lower grill,clear corners,clear upper brake light, team dynamic 15 spoke x 17" rims,Kumho 712's 215/40,pacesetter header,magnaflow cat back,FC 65mm tb,RactiveCAI,MSD dis2 ignition,Tayler Vertex wires,SHM udp,Ractive upper strut tower brace,FK hitec suspension with springs/dampers-35/40 drop,Eibach front/rear anti sway bars,Steeda short throw shifter,Momo race air leather knob and e-brake handle,custom fiberglass upper dash with AC el -glow oil pressure/volt gauges,el-glow face gauges
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exactly like dad said, my old 215's on the 7.5 inch rim were stretched, I saw a considerable advantage when doing slalom, since the tire has no lateral flex, it react faster than a 90 degree tire that would do sideway transfer.
now with 225 its just 90 degree and it rubs... lol
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-1991 Nissan Pulsar GTI-R
-2002 Red SVT focus # 2262 - sold
-2000 silver ZX3 - sold
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french_connection,Mar 18 2005, 06:42 PM Wrote:exactly like dad said, my old 215's on the 7.5 inch rim were stretched, I saw a considerable advantage when doing slalom, since the tire has no lateral flex, it react faster than a 90 degree tire that would do sideway transfer.
now with 225 its just 90 degree and it rubs... lol
[right][snapback]94616[/snapback][/right]
I'll take the girl on the left in your avatar, please. B)
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perfect, cuz the one on the right is my wife... :lol:
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-2000 silver ZX3 - sold
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01-yellow-ZX3,Mar 19 2005 Wrote:I'll take the girl on the left in your avatar, please. B)
[right][snapback]94619[/snapback][/right]
You have chosen wisely young Jedi..................
You could have opened a can of whoop ass otherwise! :lol:
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hahaha! Boy am I ever lucky :lol:
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01-yellow-ZX3,Mar 19 2005 Wrote:hahaha! Boy am I ever lucky :lol:
[right][snapback]94624[/snapback][/right]
GO TO THE CORNER STORE AND BUY A LOTTO TICKET RIGHT NOW!
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<_< ok serious, I could open a new tread about my wife and her friend.... :rolleyes: I got lots of full res pics... :P
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-2000 silver ZX3 - sold
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french_connection,Mar 19 2005, 01:17 AM Wrote:<_< ok serious, I could open a new tread about my wife and her friend.... :rolleyes: I got lots of full res pics... :P
[right][snapback]94630[/snapback][/right]
NWS I should hope? Certainly would be more interesting than talking about tires for the better part of a week.
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2001 ZTS,Mar 19 2005, 01:20 AM Wrote:french_connection,Mar 19 2005, 01:17 AM Wrote:<_< ok serious, I could open a new tread about my wife and her friend.... :rolleyes: I got lots of full res pics... :P
[right][snapback]94630[/snapback][/right]
NWS I should hope? Certainly would be more interesting than talking about tires for the better part of a week.
[right][snapback]94632[/snapback][/right]
If I could, beleive me, they would give me my own section. :lol:
but I think I would also get a divorce, so I'll pass... :rolleyes:
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-1991 Nissan Pulsar GTI-R
-2002 Red SVT focus # 2262 - sold
-2000 silver ZX3 - sold
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