[cornflakes]

Hey y'all,

I'm sure we get a lot of these speeding ticket posts with ppl trying to justify themselves and make the officers look wrong for giving us the ticket....well, here's my own.

I've only gotten 1 previous speeding ticket and it was not much over the "allowed" limit (plus it was a "booby trap"). I've never caused an accident or have any criminal record of any sort. So I consider myself a decent citizen and a good driver. What eats at me is when i'm just having a simple drive on my way home on a very empty willowdale avenue heading south from steeles. There's no speed limit sign posted (or at least that is visible clearly) and for those of you who have been on this road know how open and usually empty it is.

I'm in the right lane and slowly speeding up from a red traffic light. Then I see up ahead a car parked in the lane im in so I speed up just a tad to get safely ahead of a car in the left lane. As soon as I did that i see this guy walk out to the middle of the street pointing at me with this menacing look and his black shades on....pointing and shouting at me like im the god damn devil himself.


Parked over at the side, he tells me he stopped me for speeding cuz i was going 73 in a 50. Now that seems little over what i was really at. In fact, i bet anything me having to change lanes cuz of that parked car up ahead had something to do with the 3-5 km/h accererlation so i was probably really going around 65-69 and hit 73 for a COUPLE SECONDS cuz of the lane change and acceleration to safely be ahead of the other car in that lane.

In the end i get slapped with a $111 ticket. Way to go for the officer who is a hot shot and saved the city by pulling over a guy just on his way home on an empty quiet willowdale avenue.

I know all these stories are told over and over much similar to mine but its really too bad that we can just say, "well they are just doing their job"....yes, they don't know anything about us. For all they know, we could be the nicest, simplest, drive clean record driver but the moment they see us +3 or +5 over the allowed limit, they fine us $100.

I will pay my fine but i noticed on the slip there are 3 options. What does the 2nd option mean?

It says, "OPTION 2: to plead guilty with an explanation: attend the court office within the times and days shown."

What does this mean? Does it mean if i go in with an explanation i might be able to get my fine reduced a bit? Option 1 is to just plead guilty and pay the total fine. Option 3 is to challenge the ticket and appear in court.

My explanation would be: no visible or clear sign on willowdale ave from steeles south. Possible set up play cuz there was this parked car in the lane forcing me to either deccelerate completely to let left lane cars go by or accelearate a bit to get ahead.....then WHAM...gotcha on the radar says the officer. Last explanation, he caught me at 73 for like a instant when i was mostly at 65-70 the whole time. So I sinned for 2 seconds....why should that sum up my whole life?


I'd really like to explore option 2. Sometimes, i feel i get slammed worse for speeding than most criminals get for assault, robbery, or even something like vandalism.

[Canadian ST]

Well try to fight it!! My wife had a six star record until she got her ticket kinda the same as yours) The $110 is not a big deal its the points that bite you in the ass.
With a perfect record for 8 years her insurance went up $35 a month, that may not sound like alot but it was only $85 to start with.

I was also told the best thing to do is to fight it because the police officer has to show up and 60% off the time they don't show.
You could also try to pleeing guilty. Sometimes they reduce the ticket and you get know points

Good luck

[mo_focus]

Option 3. fight it
Option 2, guilty with explanation
Option 1, pay and shut up
These are the options they give you. I will NEVER do option 1, bc you will have to pay for the whole ticket.

I usually go with option 2, that will get you a meeting with the crown, they will ask you what you want, you will tell them you want the ticket to be brought up to 50$ and no points. They will say ok.

Option 3, you will say you will go to the courtroom and defend yourself. It’s a good option if you are not really busy with work. You will have to see the crown first, and then tell her you want to take it to court regardless of the option she will give you. So then you have to set a court date. Once you show up to court(this will usually take about a year) you will see if the cop actually shows up or not, if he shows up then you just say guilty with explanation, the judge will reduce it to 50$ and no points. If the cop doesn’t show, then you will WIN the case and no fine or points.

Basically this is how the justice system works. Instead of the cop just reducing the speed by 5km/h and giving you a ticket for 50$ you will have to go to court and see about 10ppl to get the same deal. Sad I know.

[cornflakes]

my ticket says $111 (total) but i don't think i was docked any points. So you basically mean i can get it reduced to around $50?

[guilty]

I wouldn't bother mentioning the fact that there are no signs posted, the city has a set limit where no other sign is posted and you learn that in driver training. If you don't see a sign they'll tell you that you have to assume it is a 50 zone.

If it's going to affect your insurance then you should probably show up in court and try to get it reduced and explain the situation of a car parked in the driving lane.

In SK a speeding ticket doesn't affect your insurance unless it's in a school zone, construction zone, or passing an emergency vehicle. That's a pretty s***ty deal Ontario gets with insurance rates..

[OAC_Sparky]

mo_focus,Jun 10 2007, 08:44 PM Wrote:Option 3. fight it
Option 2, guilty with explanation
Option 1, pay and shut up
These are the options they give you. I will NEVER do option 1, bc you will have to pay for the whole ticket.

I usually go with option 2, that will get you a meeting with the crown, they will ask you what you want, you will tell them you want the ticket to be brought up to 50$ and no points. They will say ok.

Option 3, you will say you will go to the courtroom and defend yourself. It’s a good option if you are not really busy with work. You will have to see the crown first, and then tell her you want to take it to court regardless of the option she will give you. So then you have to set a court date. Once you show up to court(this will usually take about a year) you will see if the cop actually shows up or not, if he shows up then you just say guilty with explanation, the judge will reduce it to 50$ and no points. If the cop doesn’t show, then you will WIN the case and no fine or points.

Basically this is how the justice system works. Instead of the cop just reducing the speed by 5km/h and giving you a ticket for 50$ you will have to go to court and see about 10ppl to get the same deal. Sad I know.
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You can always do #2, that's what I recommend.

However, here are some unsolicited tips.

1) The speed limit in city limits (any Canadian city) unless posted otherwise is 50km/h. That's Driving 101, it's on every driver's test for the last 25 years.

2) In nearly 25 years of driving, I have yet to be pulled over for going any less than 20 km over. Scratch that. Once I got pulled over for passing a cop, she was doing the limit on the QEW and I was doing 117. I guess she figured she wanted to be a parade marshall, I dunno. But I digress. No ticket issued, just a warning not to pass cops (hmmm ya, ok). So in 25 years and about 8 speeding tickets, none were for actually doing less than 20kmh over, although most were dropped to 15kmh on paper. So to say that they're bothering you for 3-5km over is an exaggeration.

3) When you are coming up on a parked car, you have the choice to decelerate or accelerate. If you need to increase your speed that you're nearly exceeding the speed limit by 50%, you made the wrong choice. Do you think a cop would accept it if you sped up to 150kmh on the 401 because you needed to change lanes?

Not saying this to bust your balls, I've got my own lead foot. But stand up and take responsibilty for your own choices.

Go option #2, go to court and explain that you needed to change lanes and in a moment of inattention was speeding. No claims of persecution. Not hurrying to get somewhere. Claim you were watching the road around you and was trying to merge and wasn't looking down at the speedo. Chances are unless you're being a dick they'll shave 10 kmh off and give you no points for 15kmh over. And call it a day with lessons learned.

(PS. I know Guilty just posted the 50knm thing, took me longer than 20 mins to post my reply. Damned kids... <_< )

[cornflakes]

yes i thought option 2 myself would be the best thing but i was just reading that on most speeding ticket sites (that fight for you) they say option 2 pleading guilty means it will still go on my record for 3 years and insurance companies can see this and decide to up the insurance rate?

If all option 2 does is lower the fine, then maybe going for 3 and fighting my case is better so i don't have a record?

[cornflakes]

oh...if i go for option 3 and set a trial date, how much is the court/trial fee??

[naz]

setup a time with the prosecutor and talk to them .. should be possible to get it down to something less severe (i htink its unlikely that you'll be able to get it thrown out)

[OAC_Sparky]

When was your last ticket and when do you renew your insurance?

Tickets stay on your record for 3 years. If your court date is set after your insurance renewal date, the infraction won't be on your record for another year. (Tip: The ticket doesn't show on your record until after the court precedings are done, but the 3 years it stays on your record starts the day the ticket was issued.) If your previous ticket is two years or more ago, it will roll off before the other shows.

While fighting the ticket can be a good thing, remember that most of that train of thought was from when cops were not compensated for their court time. A lot of times now the court actually schedules trials so that all the cases for a particular cop is on the same day. IF the cop does show, there's a good chance that you'll get hit with the whole shebang. There'll be no second chances.

Likely this being a roadside speedtrap (ie. cop set up standing on the side of the road flagging you over), there had been neighbourhood complaints, and you weren't the only one pulled over that day. I got nailed one time, same type trap, the cop was nailing drivers driving into brilliant morning sun. I literally couldn't see my instrument panel, it was that bright (not a valid excuse for speeding, but the cop knew what he was doing when he was doing it). I got a 22 over, chose Option 2 got it reduced to 15 over no points. But the cop was there, if I'd gone to trial right there I'd been screwed.

So, you've got a 90% chance of getting a reduced ticket with Option #2 (guilty with an excuse), a 50% chance of getting it thrown out on Option #3. How lucky do you feel?

[mo_focus]

cornflakes,Jun 11 2007, 04:25 AM Wrote:oh...if i go for option 3 and set a trial date, how much is the court/trial fee??
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there are some other costs/fees as well. I can't remember right now, but i think there was one called "victem surcharge" which is around 10$ i think.

Option 3 is the best, but you would most likely loose two days just to fight it, thats why most ppl here are suggesting option2. As for your record, it will be a minor speeding ticket 15km/h and under and it will stay in your records for 3 years.

Goodluck and let us kow what you did.\

Regards, Mo

[Spinal]

just call x-copper. they get you off on basically everything, hard to believe.

[naz]

i agree with others who have posted that option 3 (court/trial) is rolling the dice big time. if the officer shows up i'm not sure you have a leg to stand on.

depending on how much x-copper etc charge it may not be worth it to get a lawyer for this situation. the only time i got a lawyer was when i got a 30mph over plus a 25mph over at the same time. that would have been like.. instant license suspension if it went through so i pretty much had to get a lawyer. it was my first ticket ever so they were nice and tossed on ticket and reduced the other to 9mph over (whew). well worth the money spent in that case.

but for you, 23kph over plus its your first offense.. you are pretty much guaranteed to get it reduced i think.. you should cost out the lawyer fee versus the insurance increase (i think it should be marginal)

[thenorm]

my opinion is to take option 2,
explain your good driving record, plead guilty to your brief lapse in good judgment, ask for leniance (ie. lower $ or no points) and accept whatever they decide (most likely smaller fine) and move on. From your story i dont think you have too much of an argument to try and nix the whole ticket (sorry)

[cornflakes]

thanks for all the informative replies. I agree, probably will go with option 2 cuz i will still take responsibility but the fine itself and even the points aren't a big deal to me.....its the conviction and if that gives reason enough to raise insurance rates, then that's what really sux.

I don't mind being responsible and paying for a one time offense (albeit it wasn't like i was racing or doing anything incredibly stupid....just driving home on a quiet road, and was caught in the red for a few seconds) but to have to pay for it over and over and over again on insurance rates is really the killer and is what seems really unfair.

As I was doing a lot of research on this and on other car club forums, it's incredible how many other ppl have been ticketed or fined for the smallest things.

I read at the honda or nissan forums some guy got a fine of $200 for failing to stop at a stop sign on his bicycle. People with aftermarket mufflers get pulled over and ticketed for no good reason. So many ppl seem to have gotten speeding tickets for 10 and 15km/h over (what!?). It's really a shame how good the cops do with traffic and ticketing, but do so poorly when it comes to crackdown on drugs, street violence/gangs, guns, vandalism, robbery, b/e, and other criminal behaviour. I guess it's because you don't make money for stopping criminals but you make a hell of a lot of money for ticketing the average citizen just minding their own business on a nice stroll home.

I'll go for option 2 and let u know what happened.
peace

[naz]

cornflakes,Jun 11 2007, 08:27 PM Wrote:People with aftermarket mufflers get pulled over and ticketed for no good reason.
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keep it looking and sounding stock and you never have to worry about that kind of bs...

[cornflakes]

i still have my 2.25" Trubendz magnaflow in the garage yet to be installed.....i think that looks close to stock (the magnaflow tip is 3.5" i think) so it looks almost like a stock tip.....but i dont know exactly how it will sound.

BTW, my focus is completely STOCK....